Actually, all those words (however unsavory) imply real action. “God is in control….” What a helpless, pathetic, apathetic statement. Imagine if an airline pilot, or worse, a surgeon, said that? Errrrr…. WTF?
I don’t usually harp on the same argument. The original premise is at the Fart post and can stay there.
The battle is not for the strong, the race is not for the swift, and by strength shall no man prevail. If they say, “Get on your mark and go,” and you jump forward and begin to run, it does not mean that you will win.
Usually it is said when things are far from being in any sort of control. Curious when they are happy they sometimes don’t remember the big guy who is formless up there
Life is MORE precious without “God” … if there was another word to refer to a “great nothing” and get the job done efficiently in conversations with Christians, I would never use the word again.
The invention of a personal, wishful, mindful, nosy, interfering YET unexplainably invisible god has to be the most destructive idea ever arrived at by man. It’s actually organised, sanctioned paranoia.
That’s it in a nutshell. It’s an interesting debate as to whether or not the universe is (somehow) conscious. I doubt it. There’s nothing to indicate a consciousness. What the universe has however clearly exhibited is an “urge” to complexity: Hydrogen to Helium, Helium to Oxygen and Carbon, and so on. It’s why I like Brain Cox’s answer to the question, what is life, so much: “Life is the universe trying to understand itself.”
Ehrman’s first 30 minutes are the most important., and certainly the most interesting.
After that there is the other blokes rebuttal and a few Q & A.
You could probably skip everything else – as you can imagine it’s the same as with all debates of this nature, nothing is ever REALLY resolved – the insightful comments are Ehrman’s, and his explanation of how we come to have the manuscripts and how they were put together.
His explanation of Paul’s Epistles is eyeopening’ something I had never encountered before.
30 minutes and you will have food a plenty for a post.
hahahahaha. eu me estruturo para ser a deusa de mim mesma.
Jamais delego minha mente para gurus, psicólogos, pastores, padres, professores, publicitários, políticos, etc e tal eu estou no controle, ou penso que sim 🙂
Adoraria saber que voc.ê entendeu o meu português,
Porque o meu vocabulário em inglês é pífio.
“I aim to be the goddess of myself.
Never delegate the mind gurus, psychologists, pastors, priests, teachers, advertisers, politicians, etc and I’m in control, or think so
I’d love to know if you understand my Portuguese,
Because my English vocabulary is insignificant.”
SO true. I remember being caught in the world of Christianity asking everyone I could, “WHY did this happen?” When I got that answer, it was gut-wrenching terror, not the peace they were hoping to deliver.
‘Terror’ is such a good word for this. So many adjectives actually apply, and none are pretty. Above all i think ‘defeatist’ sums it up best…. and that’s pretty sad.
God knows when you’ve ‘sinned’ or more simply acted immorally against another person, as he is basically your conscience in this sense so ‘god’ is everywhere, or at least everywhere that you could go. And a confession would simply be acknowledging to yourself that you were in the wrong and allowing yourself to feel the regret for acting as such, everyone sins the person in the right is the person who can admit that to themselves and not live on denying it only to repeat it
I think a lot of the trouble that happens between people of different beliefs is caused by the tendency to take holy teachings too literally. The Ten Commandments become a collection of commonly agreed morals amongst a community, and when seen as such can be easily understood to be fluid as the community changes, and values and technology adapt to that community. It’s easy to see how these ideas and these writings came to be as civilization developed, but then it is equally easy to see how these ideas are irrelevant today.
So to follow the stories of yesterday is like being obsessed with composers from the 16th century, that’s fine if you want to do it but you have to realize that music [morals, life] have changed since then and to believe that yours is the ‘right’ way and that everyone should agree with you and ignore currently emerging trends in morals and ethics is ignorant in the highest order.
Most religions seem to be excellent guidebooks that provide their followers with general principles to help them look at themselves and at least get moving in the right direction its common knowledge that all humans require companionship or a sense of belonging also the sense of a community. It’s when those religions try to assume the power of monopolies, and when their adherents become militant, that big problems arise. People are wired with an attitude of “Us against Them,” and religion feeds right into that unfortunately ….
I’ve often wondered if, for those among us who find it hard to believe, God doesn’t Self-reveal in all the amazing things in creation around us, beginning with one another. For example, & I am still on the fence that humanity is merely a happy biological accident, even if we do have a discernible if also broken line of development. Or that the stars or a brilliant sunset are simply chemical-physical reactions. And even if they were, isn’t there a hint of divinity in our amazed and appreciative reaction to them?
Perhaps for those who don’t believe, one path to a certainty of sorts lies in remaining open, and not boxing God in using either traditional or nontraditional limitations. (This might be helpful for those who don’t believe or can’t believe, but not for those who won’t believe.)
I have never met anyone who isn’t open to that sense of awe when experiencing the physical beauty of the world, the variety of living things & all its diversity, and the immenseness of the universe. If I were the conscious creator of all those things and witnessed people everywhere exhibiting an “amazed and appreciative reaction to them,” I think that would do it for me. I can’t imagine needing to be worshipped directly. I certainly couldn’t imagine sending most of those people to an eternal and agonizing punishment because they failed to worship me. And I would never tolerate one group killing another in order to demonstrate their loyalty to me, or mine to them. If we could only look at it that way, we’d realize there’s so much we all agree on.
I’m told that St. Paul commented on something when he wrote in his first letter to the church in Corinth that in this life we see God “indistinctly, as in a mirror.”
“isn’t there a hint of divinity in our amazed and appreciative reaction to them?”
No, there’s not. There’s not a hint of divinity at all. What there is the awesomeness of a universe experimenting with itself; an experiment that began 400 million years after the Big Bang (which was probably actually the Big Bounce in accordance with String Theory).
Most of what you wrote is fine and to its general thrust i agree, but i’d have to ask you to define this god you speak of.
Hi Leah… Short answer, i loath the saying “it is what it is”… but it is just a saying, not a ‘faith.’ Some people like talking about nihilism, but i’ve never met a nihilist. Have you?
I do as well, but I couldn’t think of a better phrase to describe it at the time.
And I’m talking about the faith people put into just being. This faith is just as powerful as any religion or philosophy. Existence is not a concern for animals-existence is neither is nor is not to them. But people, we think about it. We can imagine a not is. We can imagine many alternatives. We can be wholly absorbed in what is. It is a rare one (human) who is truly present in the present at all times. And whether we like to admit it or not, that shapes (controls) what we do. It is our higher power, and some people are just as devoted to it as a monk to his temple.
As far as meeting a nihilist, I do not know. But I bet if I ever had, he wouldn’t have told me.
Oh I do agree many people need this faith. It helps them, and that’s fine by me. Only a thumping asshole would purposefully get in-between an honestly goodhearted person and their mental well being. On the individual level i have no problem with theists. I find it rather silly, but ultimately i just feel sympathy for them. Cosmology is my security blanket, but i can fully understand people wanting to add a little anthropomorphic spice to that mix. That’s cool. It’s when that belief becomes evangelical that it catches my eye. Fundamentalists are simply batshit crazy, and their meddling in our secular societies infuriates me.
Agreed.
I wonder sometimes why faith in the self does not catch on faster-it works as a higher power with the traditional faith ‘requirements’, since it (the faith) actually has to transcend itself (the physical body) to work. Perhaps with our lack of control over our weaknesses we’d just implode with that much egoism. Maybe. But I think we could actually use some more. Rational senses of self all around! I’m buyin’.
Cosmology, absolutely yes. I finally, at 40 took an astronomy course in college (I was a girl in a whitebread, midwest town where boys did cool space stuff and girls took home-ec, so I came to the party a little late) and as I learned, I could actually the machinery of my life-understanding clicking into place.
I know some people who love dogs like a religion, and some people who think pot is the new nirvana.
I just do not understand the human need to always be holding on to a life preserver.
A good but simple lesson about nihilism: it is not synonymous with despair. In realizing that the universe was not ‘intended’ or meaningful, we are forced to be free. Quite the opposite of despair. My two cents.
“Faith is the susbstance of thing hoped for, the evidence of the things not seen.” Hebrews ll:l
I built my life on these words for 47 years. Eventually I gave myself permission to think for myself and that’s where it all began to unravel.
6 years later I am the happiest and most peaceful I have ever been in my life.
Yes…those words you quoted are heartbreaking in the extreme.
thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com 
Woah … ease up with the hate speech, dude.
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Hehe, no doubt that accusation will be flying around later…
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John, how could you say this? Words such as crime, injustice, murder, theft … are these not more irresponsible?
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Actually, all those words (however unsavory) imply real action. “God is in control….” What a helpless, pathetic, apathetic statement. Imagine if an airline pilot, or worse, a surgeon, said that? Errrrr…. WTF?
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Or a dollar bill.
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I don’t usually harp on the same argument. The original premise is at the Fart post and can stay there.
The battle is not for the strong, the race is not for the swift, and by strength shall no man prevail. If they say, “Get on your mark and go,” and you jump forward and begin to run, it does not mean that you will win.
LikeLike
The nobles did a hell of a marketing job on “faith” …
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Usually it is said when things are far from being in any sort of control. Curious when they are happy they sometimes don’t remember the big guy who is formless up there
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From a humanists position I find it sickening. It’s so pathetic, so defeatist.
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It is indeed defeatist and beyond pathetic
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Notice there’s a cyclone in the image?
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There is liberation in the words “it is all up to you.”
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Amen to that!
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Life is MORE precious without “God” … if there was another word to refer to a “great nothing” and get the job done efficiently in conversations with Christians, I would never use the word again.
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The invention of a personal, wishful, mindful, nosy, interfering YET unexplainably invisible god has to be the most destructive idea ever arrived at by man. It’s actually organised, sanctioned paranoia.
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Someone/thing must be?
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Sure…. You are. That’s the message.
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I like that 🙂
So, the universe too is, for itself if not us, right?
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As far as we know (in this neck of the celestial woods, at least) we are the universe’s consciousness. Atoms studying atoms.
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Pardon my ignorance. You mean the stardust theory, in a way?
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That’s it in a nutshell. It’s an interesting debate as to whether or not the universe is (somehow) conscious. I doubt it. There’s nothing to indicate a consciousness. What the universe has however clearly exhibited is an “urge” to complexity: Hydrogen to Helium, Helium to Oxygen and Carbon, and so on. It’s why I like Brain Cox’s answer to the question, what is life, so much: “Life is the universe trying to understand itself.”
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Followed by the scariest: “And as God’s emissary here on Earth, let me tell you what he wants you to do. “
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100%! Nailed it in one, Reasoning!
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Bang on! So I’ll continue to try and understand rather than conclude. Reason. As you just pointed out to another blogger friend.
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Sorry John. wIde of the mark, I’m afraid, and it was only THREE words.
Jesus was gay.
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Hehehe…. but that’s not heartbreaking, just a truism.
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This is the true reason behind Mary Magdalene’s
tears.
“Why are the best ones always gay!”
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Here’s an interesting video if you have some free time
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wanna’ try that again, Ark?
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And here’s the link…wake up Ark.
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Cheers! I’ve started watching this vid a few times but never got that far into it…. I’ve book marked it now to watch in increments.
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Ehrman’s first 30 minutes are the most important., and certainly the most interesting.
After that there is the other blokes rebuttal and a few Q & A.
You could probably skip everything else – as you can imagine it’s the same as with all debates of this nature, nothing is ever REALLY resolved – the insightful comments are Ehrman’s, and his explanation of how we come to have the manuscripts and how they were put together.
His explanation of Paul’s Epistles is eyeopening’ something I had never encountered before.
30 minutes and you will have food a plenty for a post.
LikeLike
hahahahaha. eu me estruturo para ser a deusa de mim mesma.
Jamais delego minha mente para gurus, psicólogos, pastores, padres, professores, publicitários, políticos, etc e tal eu estou no controle, ou penso que sim 🙂
Adoraria saber que voc.ê entendeu o meu português,
Porque o meu vocabulário em inglês é pífio.
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Acho que traduzido ok …
“I aim to be the goddess of myself.
Never delegate the mind gurus, psychologists, pastors, priests, teachers, advertisers, politicians, etc and I’m in control, or think so
I’d love to know if you understand my Portuguese,
Because my English vocabulary is insignificant.”
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Infelizmente, meu Português é terrível! Posso, no entanto, compreender o texto escrito melhor do que falado.
I agree with you, though. Too many gurus who “think” they know 🙂
Escrever em Português sempre que quiser …. Traduz Google é muito bom! 😉
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OK. THX A LOT. estou mais confortável agora 🙂
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SO true. I remember being caught in the world of Christianity asking everyone I could, “WHY did this happen?” When I got that answer, it was gut-wrenching terror, not the peace they were hoping to deliver.
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‘Terror’ is such a good word for this. So many adjectives actually apply, and none are pretty. Above all i think ‘defeatist’ sums it up best…. and that’s pretty sad.
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Absolutely. It’s difficult when defeatists demand that they are correct.
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Loved reading this comments thread. Ate it up like candy 🙂
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Can be a lively old circus sometimes 🙂
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God knows when you’ve ‘sinned’ or more simply acted immorally against another person, as he is basically your conscience in this sense so ‘god’ is everywhere, or at least everywhere that you could go. And a confession would simply be acknowledging to yourself that you were in the wrong and allowing yourself to feel the regret for acting as such, everyone sins the person in the right is the person who can admit that to themselves and not live on denying it only to repeat it
I think a lot of the trouble that happens between people of different beliefs is caused by the tendency to take holy teachings too literally. The Ten Commandments become a collection of commonly agreed morals amongst a community, and when seen as such can be easily understood to be fluid as the community changes, and values and technology adapt to that community. It’s easy to see how these ideas and these writings came to be as civilization developed, but then it is equally easy to see how these ideas are irrelevant today.
So to follow the stories of yesterday is like being obsessed with composers from the 16th century, that’s fine if you want to do it but you have to realize that music [morals, life] have changed since then and to believe that yours is the ‘right’ way and that everyone should agree with you and ignore currently emerging trends in morals and ethics is ignorant in the highest order.
Most religions seem to be excellent guidebooks that provide their followers with general principles to help them look at themselves and at least get moving in the right direction its common knowledge that all humans require companionship or a sense of belonging also the sense of a community. It’s when those religions try to assume the power of monopolies, and when their adherents become militant, that big problems arise. People are wired with an attitude of “Us against Them,” and religion feeds right into that unfortunately ….
I’ve often wondered if, for those among us who find it hard to believe, God doesn’t Self-reveal in all the amazing things in creation around us, beginning with one another. For example, & I am still on the fence that humanity is merely a happy biological accident, even if we do have a discernible if also broken line of development. Or that the stars or a brilliant sunset are simply chemical-physical reactions. And even if they were, isn’t there a hint of divinity in our amazed and appreciative reaction to them?
Perhaps for those who don’t believe, one path to a certainty of sorts lies in remaining open, and not boxing God in using either traditional or nontraditional limitations. (This might be helpful for those who don’t believe or can’t believe, but not for those who won’t believe.)
I have never met anyone who isn’t open to that sense of awe when experiencing the physical beauty of the world, the variety of living things & all its diversity, and the immenseness of the universe. If I were the conscious creator of all those things and witnessed people everywhere exhibiting an “amazed and appreciative reaction to them,” I think that would do it for me. I can’t imagine needing to be worshipped directly. I certainly couldn’t imagine sending most of those people to an eternal and agonizing punishment because they failed to worship me. And I would never tolerate one group killing another in order to demonstrate their loyalty to me, or mine to them. If we could only look at it that way, we’d realize there’s so much we all agree on.
I’m told that St. Paul commented on something when he wrote in his first letter to the church in Corinth that in this life we see God “indistinctly, as in a mirror.”
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“isn’t there a hint of divinity in our amazed and appreciative reaction to them?”
No, there’s not. There’s not a hint of divinity at all. What there is the awesomeness of a universe experimenting with itself; an experiment that began 400 million years after the Big Bang (which was probably actually the Big Bounce in accordance with String Theory).
Most of what you wrote is fine and to its general thrust i agree, but i’d have to ask you to define this god you speak of.
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Loving your blog.
For this post I’d like to ask, what is the difference between leaving it all up to god versus the “it is what it is” philosophy?
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Hi Leah… Short answer, i loath the saying “it is what it is”… but it is just a saying, not a ‘faith.’ Some people like talking about nihilism, but i’ve never met a nihilist. Have you?
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I do as well, but I couldn’t think of a better phrase to describe it at the time.
And I’m talking about the faith people put into just being. This faith is just as powerful as any religion or philosophy. Existence is not a concern for animals-existence is neither is nor is not to them. But people, we think about it. We can imagine a not is. We can imagine many alternatives. We can be wholly absorbed in what is. It is a rare one (human) who is truly present in the present at all times. And whether we like to admit it or not, that shapes (controls) what we do. It is our higher power, and some people are just as devoted to it as a monk to his temple.
As far as meeting a nihilist, I do not know. But I bet if I ever had, he wouldn’t have told me.
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Oh I do agree many people need this faith. It helps them, and that’s fine by me. Only a thumping asshole would purposefully get in-between an honestly goodhearted person and their mental well being. On the individual level i have no problem with theists. I find it rather silly, but ultimately i just feel sympathy for them. Cosmology is my security blanket, but i can fully understand people wanting to add a little anthropomorphic spice to that mix. That’s cool. It’s when that belief becomes evangelical that it catches my eye. Fundamentalists are simply batshit crazy, and their meddling in our secular societies infuriates me.
LikeLike
Agreed.
I wonder sometimes why faith in the self does not catch on faster-it works as a higher power with the traditional faith ‘requirements’, since it (the faith) actually has to transcend itself (the physical body) to work. Perhaps with our lack of control over our weaknesses we’d just implode with that much egoism. Maybe. But I think we could actually use some more. Rational senses of self all around! I’m buyin’.
Cosmology, absolutely yes. I finally, at 40 took an astronomy course in college (I was a girl in a whitebread, midwest town where boys did cool space stuff and girls took home-ec, so I came to the party a little late) and as I learned, I could actually the machinery of my life-understanding clicking into place.
I know some people who love dogs like a religion, and some people who think pot is the new nirvana.
I just do not understand the human need to always be holding on to a life preserver.
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That’s such a wonderful way of putting it: I could actually (feel) the machinery of my life-understanding clicking into place.
Nice!
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Thanks. I really enjoyed your wordsmithing as well.
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A good but simple lesson about nihilism: it is not synonymous with despair. In realizing that the universe was not ‘intended’ or meaningful, we are forced to be free. Quite the opposite of despair. My two cents.
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To that I would most definitely agree!
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“Faith is the susbstance of thing hoped for, the evidence of the things not seen.” Hebrews ll:l
I built my life on these words for 47 years. Eventually I gave myself permission to think for myself and that’s where it all began to unravel.
6 years later I am the happiest and most peaceful I have ever been in my life.
Yes…those words you quoted are heartbreaking in the extreme.
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Thank you.
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