Sketches on Atheism / This Jesus Fellow

Excuse me, but which Jesus are you talking about?

There’s an elegant, albeit scrupulously self-serving reason why an awful lot (82%) of the canonical writings pertaining to Jesus were left on the cutting-room floor in the Christian bibles 300+ year editing process. While charlatans, liars and counterfeiters of the highest order, the nameless proof readers and editors ultimately in-charge of fashioning the orthodox Christian product weren’t entirely insane. From the creepily coercive homosexual Jesus who surfaces in James 2nd Apocalypse and the Secret Gospel of Mark (Jesus told him what to do and in the evening the youth came to him, wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the kingdom of God) to the gnostic gospel of Thomas (which miraculously forgets to mention the crucifixion) there are in fact over seventy so-named Apocryphal books that were evidently considered either too outlandish or simply too contradictory by early Christian publicists to make the final grade. 2f8238e7Alone, this is a remarkable statement as it means Mathew’s post-crucifixion Zombie Apocalypse (which, extraordinarily, no one in all of Judea seemed to have noticed) was deemed at some point by these same men to be perfectly credible. Credible, that is to say, when perhaps compared to the mob of hideous, fire breathing, winged dragons a two-year-old, nappy wearing Jesus battles (and bests) on his way to Egypt.

That particular story is found in the 18th Chapter of the Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew; one of the nine so-called Infancy Gospels which detail the early life of a thoroughly odd, utterly ghastly little boy named, Jesus; a boy you seriously, absolutely, positively wouldn’t want as a neighbour.

MusclesThree years after the dragon incident, now aged five and back in Nazareth (which incidentally wouldn’t actually exist as a town until at least five generations later), Jesus was playing on the muddy banks of a creek with some other kids. Being Jesus he fashions some birds out of clay, whispers life into the statues, and they happily fly away (Infancy Gospel of Thomas 3:2-3). Another boy saw this and for reasons he’d soon regret meandered up to Jesus’ pool of miracle-mud and started poking at it with a stick. Puddles, evidently, meant a lot to Jesus because he goes balls-in-the-air ballistic and murders the kid right there on the spot. “O evil, ungodly, and foolish one, what hurt did the pools and the waters do thee? Behold, now also thou shalt be withered like a tree, and shalt not bear leaves, neither root, nor fruit.” And straightway that lad withered up wholly. (Pseudo-Matthew  27-28)

A little later on that same day Jesus is walking through the streets of Nazareth (streets which, of course, wouldn’t be laid until at least the middle of the 2nd century) whereupon a happy-go-lucky boy carelessly, but accidently, bumps up against him. Without rhyme or reason Jesus goes berserk and in a frenzied fit of rage promptly murders that kid as well. Jesus was provoked and said unto him, “Thou shalt not finish thy course.” And immediately he fell down and died. (Infancy Gospel of Thomas 4:1)

racist-little-boyWith the homicidal butchering of two kids under his belt before even lunchtime the five-year-old then goes completely off the rails and in an eruption of egomaniacal hellfire orders that the terrified children of Nazareth (which didn’t exist) worship him as a king. Panic-stricken they obey and mobilise into Jesus’ personal sycophant army who proceed to terrorise the town, forcing all passers-by to pay their respects to him like Kurtz enthroned in the middle of the deepest, darkest jungle. Soon after some men dash through town carrying a child and when confronted by Jesus’ thugs they refuse to divert from their path and pay homage. When he gets wind of this Jesus tracks the men down and demands an explanation. “The child has been bitten by a snake and we desperately need a cure,” they tell him. Jesus calls the snake out from the woods, commands it to suck the poison back out from the boy, and then for no reason whatsoever blows the poor reptile to smithereens. So the serpent crept to the boy, and took away all its poison again. Then the Lord Jesus cursed the serpent so that it immediately burst asunder, and died. (First Gospel of Infancy 18:13-16)

Evil-Little-BoyAfter this incident the townsfolk of Nazareth (a town as yet settled by anyone) confront Jesus’ father, Joseph, and insist he rein the boy in. Under threat of expulsion (from a place not yet founded) Joseph delivers his cease and desist ultimatum to the boy. Jesus hears the words, ponders his father’s insolence, momentarily thinks about killing him, but then chooses instead to just blind all the adults in town. “They shall bear their punishment.” And straightway they that accused him were smitten with blindness (Infancy Gospel of Thomas 5:1).

At this Joseph goes nuts, but Jesus simply dismisses him. He mocks and threatens everyone, says he knows the day of their death, makes a teacher named Zacchaeus cry, then bursts into deranged maniacal laughter and restores everyone’s sight. After that, “nobody dared to make him angry because they did not want to be cursed or crippled.” (Infancy Gospel of Thomas 8:4).

A few days later though Jesus is playing on the roof of a house with another boy and when the lads parents return they, predictably, find their son dead on the ground (Infancy Gospel of Thomas 9:1-3). When asked Jesus says he didn’t do it, rather the kid just spontaneously threw himself off the roof. To make amends Jesus resurrects the boy who’s clearly so petrified of this egotistical little psychopath that he parrots the story and tells everyone that he, in fact, hurled himself off the roof, voluntarily…. Not Jesus, oh no, never.

Faces of JesusNow, this is just one snippet (a few days copied across three canonical documents) in the life of what is essentially fifty entirely different (albeit mostly incomplete) Jesus’; a 1st Century Judean gnostic character who in even the church sanctioned editions exhibits different personality traits doing completely different things at entirely different times depending on which account you read. It is a character to whom not a single physical description is given and who floats in a suggested window of time, yet no date for his birth, deeds or death is offered anywhere. Since his invention in 1939, Batman has also exhibited over fifty entirely unique versions of himself depending on which account you read. In the original 1939 version Bruce Wayne becomes Batman, but in DC Comics Azrael’s version it’s the computer science graduate student, Jean-Paul Valley, who assumes the role of masked crusader. In Batman Earth Two Bruce Wayne is born in 1910, but in Gotham by Gaslight Batman starts his crime fighting career in 1889. In The Batman of Arkham Bruce Wayne is a psychiatrist who runs the Arkham Asylum for the Criminally Insane, while in Castle of the Bat, Bruce Wayne is a geneticist who brings to life a patchwork corpse containing bat DNA and the brain of his father.

Like Batman, Jesus is a character literally impossible to pin down, and if there is any semblance of mild uniformity in the pseudepigraphical synoptic gospels then it’s only because Mathew and Luke were copied directly from Mark; itself an embellished document which originally didn’t even mention a resurrection event (Mark 16). Although divergent the edited and re-edited synoptic gospels are, however, the aberration. In the Gospel of Peter it is Herod Antipas, not Pontius Pilate, who orders Jesus’ death, and in the Gospel of Truth he is nailed to a tree, not a Roman cross. TyrantPerhaps even more unfamiliar to our ears is the Jesus found in the Gospel of the Egyptians who not only demands total abstinence but preaches for the outright separation of the sexes, stating that sorrow and error will remain with man “As long as women bear children.”

What is however perfectly clear to anyone curious enough to look is that 1,650 years ago some mindful, temperately script-savvy church publicists figured a murderous, bloodthirsty, psychopathic baby Jesus probably wasn’t the type of character they wanted to sell as their frontline product. A similar decision seems to have been made by the studio executives at DC Comics when in 1994 they passed on commissioning a second instalment to The Tyrant; a freakishly bizarre story where a corrupt Batman takes control of Gotham City, drugs the city’s water supply and turns it into a police state before he is brought down by the villains he once terrorised and then burnt alive inside Wayne Manor by the good citizens of Gotham.

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189 thoughts on “Excuse me, but which Jesus are you talking about?

  1. To say this is interesting would be an understatement of the year! Now that is a Jesus I wouldn’t with a 100 miles of any one I know no wonder the bible authors tell us when he is born, when he is 12 and when he comes to commit suicide at age 30 or is it 33

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      • have you tried to read what he did in 3 years? If you combine all of it to include the side, 3 months is the longest you can get to. And we are told he walked around Galilee for some time!

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      • He was fishing, with his friends, and hosting private functions with boys wearing only loin cloths… as instructed 😦

        This is the gay Jesus touched on in James 2nd Apocalypse: “And Jesus kissed my mouth. He took hold of me saying, ‘My beloved! Behold, I shall reveal to you those things that neither the heavens nor the angels have known. Behold, I shall reveal to you everything, my beloved. Behold, I shall reveal to you what is hidden. But now, stretch out your hand. Now, take hold of me!’

        Creepy stalker promising treats!

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      • Then he was busy as hell 😛
        Great post mate. I enjoyed every bit of it and shared it with some of my christian friends. I hope they will call me for a beer someday

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      • Odd, isn’t it. I have to admit, i also find it more than just a little hilarious that the authors and editors (of the orthodox version) even messed up with Nazareth. Must have looked at an early 2nd Century map and picked a suitably obscure little village and said, “That’s it! We’ll put him there!”

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  2. I assume you have read “Who Wrote the New Testament” by Mack. The story is almost as interesting as the Infancy Gospels (which I haven’t read since college). The New Testament is a political document, or rather a bunch of competing political documents as the contending factions struggled for their existance (and ego gratification). I wonder who this poor Jesus guy was because he got lost very early on. All of those gospels are fictitious, not just the wierd ones but the weird ones gave cover to the not so weird ones by comparison.

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    • “Gave cover to the not-so weird ones”… Oh, i like that!

      Nah, haven’t read that particular book, but i’ve strolled through a few others. It leaves you seriously wondering if Christians are honestly that willfully ignorant, or are they just pretending everything is A-OK. I was a catholic, as you know, and my religion went out the window the moment i cast a mildly studious eye on the whole sham. I was a kid. These people are adults!

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  3. The odd thing…the really screwed up in the head, you have to be shitting me, odd thing is that before the church were prompted to take serious action because of Marcion, it was considered okay to preach this stuff, and pretty much anyone could claim they were divinely inspired, providing it was about Jesus and /or god.
    It should be plainly obvious that the original church obviously hadn’t got it’s act together otherwise they would not have been shitting their pants when Marcion got cracking. And the sn of the old Bishop of Sinope knew a good thing when he saw it.
    I don’t recall reading if there were any extant copies of his gospel but I do know it took a long time before they stamped out his ”heretical” version of Christianity.

    Great post, John.,
    Maybe Derek will read it? Lol…see he eventually came back and commented on your Paranoia post.

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    • I saw that little exchange 🙂

      Now, to your point: Imagine a few years from now; a group of comic enthusiasts latch hold of The Batman of Arkham series. They then start claiming that is the only true version of the caped crusader and the others are fabrications and distortions: Apocrypha. They get some sponsorship, adopt uniforms, develop some rituals and start getting forceful about their claims.

      Doesn’t this sound eerily familiar?

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      • Happens all the time…hence the modern prophets and reincarnations etc.and quite a few have their own ‘comics” do they not?

        What I just cannot fathom is this:

        If ALL scriptural writing was at one time could be considered divinely inspired and with all these gospels floating around (as per your post) how did those who made the decision when compiling the bible differentiate between one ”divinely inspired text ” and another?”

        And how would someone like PeW or Craig respond to such a question?

        The canon has been set, yet we KNOW the Catholic version is different from the KJV etc.

        Experts are still not 100% decided on the authenticity of ANY of the Epistles, it was consensus that initially win the day.

        I just with there was a way to rip this whole nonsense wide open, not Dan Brown style, but a systematic cauterization.

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      • But its already out there in plain sight. People just don’t want to see it. It hasn’t penetrated popular culture yet. Hell, just a few months ago the History (cough) Channel aired its mega-production Bible series which told the OT stories as if they were real events!

        Yes, as to the editing decisions, you have to wonder how the proof readers left in the Zombie Apocalypse, yet thought the dragons were a little too much.

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      • Then there must be a way of actually drumming the truth into popular culture. But how?

        Yes that is somewhat odd about that bit in Matthew.
        Did you read that when Mike Lacona published his gospel book in 2010 he stated the zombie apocalypse should not be considered as literal and the head of his university whipped up a mini tornado and demanded a retraction?
        For one damn sentence!
        he didn’t write one btw, and was summarily dismissed.

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      • Since the Christians say Jesus was a god or son of god; it is only for this that the Atheists deny his historicity; otherwise they won’t deny that a man called Jesus son of Mary did not exist. Otherwise they don’t have a list of all men and women to verify if one exist or not.

        Do you agree?

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      • Find it yourself. It’s the “Night Journey.” Apparently its also detailed in a hadith, but i have no interest whatsoever in looking such nonsense up.

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      • It in not Quran definitely.
        Hadith did not exist in the times of Muhammad and was collected 200/300 years after him.
        Quran is the first source of guidance for Islam/Muhammad whatever the denomination.

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      • Yes, and the quran has the famous Night Journey story… which involves Mo flying to Jerusalem on a winged horse. Honestly, do i have to teach you about your own silly religion?

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      • Quran mention in the chapter 17 that you referenced journey to Al-Aqsa Mosque; which did not exist at the time of Muhammad so it was not a journey to Jerusalem which you erroneously took it to be, in my opinion. Please correct yourself.

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      • So, Quran neither mentions any winged horse nor mentions of journey to Jerusalem. Please revise your questions and being a good humanist remained focused on your questions you asked from me.

        Do you agree that your questions have been answered adequately from Quran? Please

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      • What you want me to see from the link? What you have seen there that you want me to pick from the link?

        I have read Quran myself and know it myself.

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      • The Isra and Mi’raj (Arabic: الإسراء والمعراج‎, al-’Isrā’ wal-Mi‘rāj), are the two parts of a Night Journey that, according to Islamic tradition, the prophet of Islam, Muhammad took during a single night around the year 621. It has been described as both a physical and spiritual journey.[1] A brief sketch of the story is in sura 17 Al-Isra of the Quran,[2] and other details come from the Hadith, supplemental writings about the life of Muhammad. In the journey, Muhammad travels on the steed Buraq to “the farthest mosque” where he leads other prophets in prayer. He then ascends to heaven where he speaks to God, who gives Muhammad instructions to take back to the faithful regarding the details of prayer.

        According to traditions, the journey is associated with the Lailat al Mi’raj, as one of the most significant events in the Islamic calendar.[3]

        Islamic sources
        The Night Journey started with the appearance of the Angel Jibreel who had been bringing Muhammad the Quranic revelation piecemeal on different occasions. The angel led Muhammad to a white horse-like creature which was taller than a mule but shorter than a horse with wings attached at its thighs. This heavenly creature had carried other prophets, including Ibrahim , and was the buraq or spirit horse(heavenly creature). Muhammad mounted it and it carried him high onto the sky. The Buraq reaced as far as the horizon at each stride.

        He arrived at Jerusalem where he met a company of all the prophets including Ibrahim, Musa and Isa. Ibrahim looked like no one else, but also no one did not look like him. Moses was tall, tanned, slim and with a hooked nose and curly hair. Muhammad was asked to lead them in prayer and he did.

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      • This is just an opinion of somebody; if one reads it intently one will know it does not mention that Quran says that Muhammad had a physical journey on a physical winged horse called Buraq;
        Quran does not mention Jerusalem either.

        It could be a vision, alright, which is interpret-able.

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      • Oh, so now it’s a vision…. I see…. How convenient! Tell me, if it doesn’t actually say its a vision (which it doesn’t, it says it happened) how are you making the determination that it is? Why then couldn’t EVERYTHING in the quran be nothing but the “vision” of a madman?

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      • It is not “now: a vision; it “was” a vision of Muhammad shown to him by the one true God in which he traveled in the distant future.

        How one can travel in future time and place? Any idea?

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      • The book doesn’t say it was a vision. It says it physically happened, so i want you to tell me how you know. You’re contradicting your own book.

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      • I repeat:
        “it “was” a vision of Muhammad shown to him by the one true God in which he traveled in the distant future.” time and place.
        A phenomenon which did not happen physically and could not happen physically as the Aqsa Mosque did not exist; so the common sense says it is a vision. A vision could be more real than the physical, in my opinion

        In any case it is very clear from the verses of Quran; that Quran does not say that Isra happened physically. Did Quran say it?

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      • I think you don’t know what you are talking about or you don’t read. The question of whether he was a son of god is moot because there are no gods. We question if such a personage as told in the bible existed.
        If Jesus or Mary was a common name at that time, there is no doubt one could find a Jesus son of Mary.

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      • Quoting your words:

        “If Jesus or Mary was a common name at that time, there is no doubt one could find a Jesus son of Mary.”

        So you thing Jesus son of Mary could exist; and there is no record to deny that such a human did not exist; in other words Jesus son of Mary, a human being, existed cannot be denied from any records.

        Did I understand you correctly? Please

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      • Real Jesus did not die on the Cross; he was delivered from the cross in near-dead position; after treatment of his injuries that he got inflicted on the cross he migrated from Judea and went to India and spent his rest of the life there.

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      • Quoting your words:

        “I could get a post or two from it =P”
        Please elaborate the above. I don’t get you.

        Please Google for “Jesus in India”; you will get so many. I just give you link of two documentaries:

        1. Jesus In India (BBC Documentary)

        2. Jesus In Kashmir (India) – Documentary by Indian Govt.

        Thanks for your patience.

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    • The real Jesus was, of course, a milliner who enjoyed collecting nautilus shells, making Manakeesh, and whose only true claim to the supernatural was his uncanny ability to herd cats.

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    • “How one can travel in future time and place? Any idea?” Paarsurrey your concepts of time are based on modern precepts, obviously not those at the time the Quran was penned/envisioned.
      You see this is the problem with any story, with ‘time’ it gets lost in translation with old and new metaphors and belief constructs being intermixed at one’s interpretative convenience. As I’m sure you have no memory of being around at the time the Quran first appeared, I’m sure you will agree that it is difficult to substantiate with any ounce of truth or proof. And don’t start telling me there is any archaeological evidence of pure hearsay. I’ve studied archaeology at university, and it is a very vague pursuit at best based on probabilities. It is difficult to prove anything beyond a moment ago, even with radio-carbon dating. Getting exact dates and facts is still nigh on impossible, unless of course you happen to find a coin with a date on it, which for any archaeologist is still the most important find.

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      • Hi Isshaiya

        Quoting words from your post:
        “And don’t start telling me there is any archaeological evidence of pure hearsay. I’ve studied archaeology at university, and it is a very vague pursuit at best based on probabilities. It is difficult to prove anything beyond a moment ago, even with radio-carbon dating. Getting exact dates and facts is still nigh on impossible, unless of course you happen to find a coin with a date on it, which for any archaeologist is still the most important find.”

        I think it is friend john zandeand friend Arkenaten who got impressed by the Archaeological finds; please tell them of your experience with the Archaeology at University..

        They should revise their thought about Archaeological finds and the shaky building of their thoughts erected on them.

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      • Careful, i can hear you 😉

        To correct your statement: we get impressed by the complete ABSENCE of archaeological finds supporting the stories contained in the bible. Big difference.

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      • I don’t think that even complete absence of Archaeological finds do not mean that Moses did not exist at all; it will only mean that there is a possibility that Moses did not set his foot on the place where such Archaeological works/investigation were conducted, not more than that.

        I think friend Ishaiya should come forward and give her opinion on the matter.

        There is no harm if other Archaeologists reading these posts/blogs should give their opinion; it is just a friendly discussion; no embarrassment to anybody is intended.

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      • It’s Ishaiya with one S by the way. Do you know what it means out of interest?

        I stated the above to you because you are so intent on putting your beliefs forward as fact, regardless of whether JZ and the Ark might also need to revise their thinking about archaeological ‘facts’, it’s neither here nor there. Do you know why you find yourself here on John’s blog? I know why I’m here.

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      • Sorry for the spelling mistake in your name.

        Tell me ; what Ishaiya means? Please

        Quoting your words:
        “Do you know why you find yourself here on John’s blog? I know why I’m here.”

        Please.
        I am listening.

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      • I asked you first. If you would like an equivocation match, bring it on.
        Why do you find yourself drawn to all of these Atheist blogs if you are so certain of your own beliefs?
        Look up Ishaiya, if you have a sense of humour it will make you laugh.

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      • I tried but could not find meaning of Ishaiya; perhaps it is a Tamil baby name.

        Quoting your words:

        “Why do you find yourself drawn to all of these Atheist blogs if you are so certain of your own beliefs?”

        Only because I am an open mind; I hate nobody; judge nobody and like everybody.

        Atheists are no exception.

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      • It is not a Tamil baby name, it is Sanskrit and originally meant Student of Christ, though came to mean Wise Teacher. The Ishayas are a group of monks who still exist today you can find a link on my blog if you take the trouble to look, it’s under my profile. Quite interesting really.
        What’s with the lighthouse?

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      • Oh!
        That is a minaret.
        It is in Qadian, a small town, in Gurdaspur District, Punjab in India. It is emblem of our community. Mirza Ghualm Ahmad 1835-1908- the Promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi, the end-time reformer of all the religions was born there. Muhammad prophesied that Messiah would descend near a minaret east of Damascus; so the minaret was built.

        I belong to Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat/community.

        Thanks for your question.

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      • Hi friend Ishaiya!

        Quoting your words:

        ““How one can travel in future time and place? Any idea?” Paarsurrey your concepts of time are based on modern precepts, obviously not those at the time the Quran was penned/envisioned.
        You see this is the problem with any story, with ‘time’ it gets lost in translation with old and new metaphors and belief constructs being intermixed at one’s interpretative convenience. As I’m sure you have no memory of being around at the time the Quran first appeared, I’m sure you will agree that it is difficult to substantiate with any ounce of truth or proof. ”

        I don’t agree with you.
        If travel in time and place was possible in times of Ezekiel (a messenger prophet of the one true God); as recorded in Quran; so it was possible in the time of Muhammad also.

        Ezekiel was passing near the ruined city of Jerusalem, a sacred city of Jews; he was grieved at the ruin of the city at hands of Nebuchadnezzar; at that time the one true God showed him the vision, a travel in time, and showed him the hustle bustle of the city after a hundred years. This dialogue is recorded in Quran in these words:

        [2:260] Or like him who passed by a town which had fallen down upon its roofs, and exclaimed, ‘When will Allah restore it to life after its destruction?’ Then Allah caused him to die for a hundred years; then He raised him, and said: ‘How long hast thou remained in this state?’ He answered, ‘I have remained a day or part of a day.’ He said: ‘Nay, thou hast remained in this state for a hundred years. Now look at thy food and thy drink; they have not rotted. And look at thy ass. And We have done this that We may make thee a Sign unto men. And look at the bones, how We set them and then clothe them with flesh.’ And when this became clear to him, he said, ‘I know that Allah has the power to do all that He wills.’

        http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=2&verse=259

        Thanks

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      • I’m very well aware that you can hear me John. Archaeology is slightly less guessy than just pure heresay, and yes you are right, there is very little evidence that exists with regard to proving the bible, although David Rohl egyptologist and prolific author did give it a good go (with the Old Testament that is), in the process deducing that the Ancient Egyptians were in fact more ancient than was believed. Fancy that, seems to be the theme of the week!

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      • I wouldn’t go that Phar … (this is the Pom in me I’m hiding behind; petty colonial squabbles are infra dig.)

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      • Just had to look it up. Wiki says his bits are scattered in more places than the True Cross (enough relics of which lie around sufficient to rebuild the fleets of both sides at Trafalgar).

        His mounted hide is displayed at the Melbourne Museum, his skeleton at Museum of New Zealand Te Papa Tongarewa and his heart at the National Museum of Australia in Canberra.[1][8]

        Does a royal flush beat a straight …

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      • Canberra? I never saw it in Canberra and i lived there for years. Must have been moved… that, or i’m wrong, which is entirely possible. Come to think about it, what the hell is the National Museum? Pretty sure that didn’t exist when i was pushing my bike around those lovely streets.

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      • I have much the same problem—I used several whole boxes of matches trying to get the bedside lamp to light up …

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  4. What charming stories! Thank you for giving them the wider airing they deserve. Just one question – did Nazareth exist when Jesus was reported to have lived? I just wasn’t sure where you stood on that question … 🙂

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    • I get the feeling that JZ feels “Jesus of Nazareth” is a misnomer …

      But hell, it’s just a label and they all do it. As for the uni guy who lost his job, top marks for integrity and zilch for common sense, especially in a recession. Atheism doesn’t reward martyrs, dammit …

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      • The thing is he wasn’t an atheist, rather a christian apologist. All he did was say, “Let’s be honest here, the Zombie Apocalypse didn’t happen…”

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      • As a kid my ‘Noddy’ books by Enid Blyton were filled with mentions of Noddy, and Big Ears.
        Recently one JK Rowling wrote huge tomes on Harry Potter—much more than mere mentions.

        So Noddy, Big Ears, and Harry are the same real persons, the books mention them …

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  5. Although I remember absolutely nothing (r) nothing about it other than—
    —I do remember that “Judas, My Brother” was interesting and credible fiction. Frank Yerby, I think. Dammit—one more to reread. I’ll have to subscribe to reincarnation, one life ain’t enough …

    Hey, you! God! Did you copy my above?

    (Oops, just checked; yes, it was Yerby and Amazon has it. Well now …)

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    • There is the Gospel of Judas. It’s interesting. He/it says eleven of the disciples got it all wrong. They missed the message completely which left just Judas (who did get it) in a position to “kill” Jesus and free his soul.

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      • Funny, from memory a Judas was one of JC’s brothers. Apparently Big J had quite a few siblings, including sisters, so ol’ Mary must’ve been quite an enthusiast once she’d got the blasted angels out of the house and was alone with hubby … but Christians don’t seem aware of the family ties?

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      • He could have been in one of the stories. Joseph was a 90+ year old widower with many children from his first marriage/marriages in some of the apocrypha books, and Mary is just 13.

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  6. Spoooooky! I haven’t read the Gos of Judas for a while, so fished out the ol’ Nat Geog version and promptly happened over this bit—

    “[Jesus said], “What are [the priests] like?”
    They [said, “Some …] two weeks; [some] sacrifice their own children, others their wives, in praise [and] humility with each other; some sleep with men; some are involved in [slaughter]; some commit a multitude of sins and deeds of lawlessness. And the men who stand [before] the altar invoke your [name], [39] and in all the deeds of their deficiency, the sacrifices are brought to completion […].”

    —which certainly sounds like Christian priesthoods. Maybe that scribe really could see the future … brrr!

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  7. Bloody kids eh?
    I’m sure I read somewhere that there was a theory out there that suggested that the story of Jesus and that whole peaceful “turn the other cheek” stuff was spread by Peter and Paul, on orders from Nero, in an effort to dilute militant Judaism which was at the time a pain in Rome’s arse. The two saints were then killed to cover it up. Oooh I love a good conspiracy theory.

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    • Paul (Saul) is where our attention should be… there is the charlatan of charlatans; the man who overheard some Judean crisis cultists telling a metafictional story and evidently thought he could spin a dollar from it if he repackaged the narrative and sold it to the northern diaspora (refugees) during the Roman-Jewish War.

      How’s the sales going, Danny? I haven’t had a chance to dive into my wife’s computer yet, but i will.

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  8. Early Christian writings are interesting indeed. What blows my mind is the writings of Paul. Written 30 years after the rabbi’s death, Paul says little of Jesus’ life and rarely quotes him.

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    • Yes, at best he was writing a generation and a half after the alleged death. Personally i think he’ to blame for the whole sham. Took the messianic tales being sung by Judean crisis cultists and repackaged it for sale to the Jewish refugees during/after the Roman-Jewish War. Easy sale!

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    • Paul was an enemy of Jesus son of Mary; he tried to kill him but Jesus , after the even of crucifixion in which he miraculously survived; Jesus migrated to India. Disappointed with his attempt to kill Jesus , Paul invented a new religion in Jesus’ title name and called it “Christianity”, a misnomer. Jesus son of Mary of Nazareth is a real person.
      Sorry, for the interruption friends.

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  9. Pingback: Jesus presented by Bible is mythical and a construct of Paul | paarsurrey

  10. My understanding is that Christianity can be laid squarely as P/Saul’s feet. Apparently neither JC himself nor his followers nor his brothers and sisters, mum and dad etc were Christians. JC’s bro James was most upset when the perversion by Paul occurred and referred in his documents to said Paul as “The Liar”.

    But the pivot was of course Judas. I lost track of who wrote the book (Leigh, Baigent? Lincoln?) or which book it was but they put forward the obvious, that without Judas the whole story would’ve ground to an aborted halt. Stillborn.

    In fiction (other fiction, that is) Dan Brown and Yerby both mention this—and you don’t write gripping fiction without a grasp of the basics. Da Vinci’s “Last Bunfight” was centred around the moment before JC detailed off ol’ Judas to get out there and “Serve me, do what has to be done”.

    I also like the idea of Mary Magdalen being Mrs Jesus …

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  11. I can’t help but hark back to the Santa myth (the red suited and booted Santa with the long white fluffy beard that we all now know and ‘love’). This Santa myth that was spawned by an American advertising campaign in the 1950s selling a lethal concoction fuelled at the time with class A cocaine. For sure, the myth has deeper historical roots in tales of old Germania, but our current version is barely in its 6th decade, and yet there are millions of children and adults alike who buy into it once a year like it’s been that way since the beginning of time. I mean x-mass is an institution for many of us in the West, but how fucked up is it in terms of coherent historicity. A perfect example of what happens when too many hands are involved! Goes to show it doesn’t take much to dupe the masses. I can’t imagine that people in the last 2 thou years were any less gullible than we are now. Jesus was the Santa of his day, with Paul/Saul/Sauel as the psuedo-American PR man peddling narcotic fizzy drinks to the thirsty and the infallibly gullible.

    I do find it interesting how so many psychopaths and serial killers tend to be biblically motivated, not really surprising if they’re reading ‘The Memoirs of an Infant Psychopath’ above. Aren’t these people usually regarded as being mentally disturbed these days?

    “Jesus told him what to do and in the evening the youth came to him, wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the kingdom of God”…. it’s not the homosexual reference that creeps me out… I mean each to their own, who am I to judge?… it’s the pede reference that I find truly reprehensible! As the Dog says… Brrrr!

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    • “Paul/Saul/Sauel as the psuedo-American PR man peddling narcotic fizzy drinks to the thirsty and the infallibly gullible…”

      Just to let you know in advance , I’m stealing that 🙂

      Yes, I had to carefully word the gay Jesus part. I couldn’t care less who he banged, if they were consenting. The bit before the naked linen cloth part reads: “the youth, looking upon him, loved him and began to beseech him that he might be with him. And going out of the tomb they came into the house of the youth, for he was rich.”

      You think that’s coercive, this is the gay Jesus touched on in James 2nd Apocalypse: “And Jesus kissed my mouth. He took hold of me saying, ‘My beloved! Behold, I shall reveal to you those things that neither the heavens nor the angels have known. Behold, I shall reveal to you everything, my beloved. Behold, I shall reveal to you what is hidden. But now, stretch out your hand. Now, take hold of me!’

      Sounds like a pedophile priest promising treats if he just plays ball. There’s a letter from Clement of Alexandria where he pretty much orders these gay references removed, essentially red-lining an early draft of Marks Gospel…. Leaving us the “Secret Gospel of Mark.”

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      • Sure I’ll let you have that with credits of course… 😉

        The “Secret Gospel of Mark” I have come across before in one or more of my books. It makes you wonder really, whether it’s just human nature that has made pedophilia so prevalent in the clergy or whether its indoctrination, remembering of course that every sect (and as you know there are many) of Christianity claims to have its own [more valid than the other] version of events?
        Christianity in all its variant forms, has either subliminally or very obviously been telling its devotees that it’s ok to be subversive in the most despicable of ways for centuries… then again there is a very Roman flavour that comes through, and we know what the Romans were like when it came to carnal pleasures, whether through sex or murder…

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      • And this only one of the many that we don’t know about right?
        You see I don’t think it’s human nature at all to commit such acts, rather it’s a cause of beliefs that are imposed and become warped through the interpretation and the suppression of what ‘is’ human nature.
        I wonder who set the precedent for that priest in his own boyhood? Paedophiles are usually victims themselves.
        As a mother or young vulnerable children it is a subject that would drive me to great acts of violence in its eradication I can tell you. It isn’t the kind of damage you fix with a bandaid.

        Come on Christians there is turning a blind eye, and there’s turning a blind eye! These people must have very good sound-proofing in their little God-houses, to block out all the screams of those that have fallen victim to their dirty little religious secret.

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      • Yes I heard on the news yesterday, what joyous fun…NOT! Poor little fuckers, those of whom are brought up with religious fuckwits as parents. Look, to make it to adulthood and still condone Christianity is just abhorrently ludicrous to me. It says a lot about a person’s state of mind and ability to reason. But there again we are back at the IQ versus Haiku test. Sefl-preservation will always trump logic and rationality. And that’s what I find scary, those people who are aware of the lies but choose to do nothing… ooh now that’s a very big can of worms… but let’s not think of the wider social implications that I have just alluded to with that one… eek!

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    • About the Santa myth, I think we Finns have the highest likelyhood whith the infant killing apochrypal Jesus. Less than a hundred years ago our equivelalnt to Santa was not based on this St Nicholas character, but on an older pagan tradition of less than savioury nature. Today our “Joulupukki” (wich actually roughly translates as “yule-goat”) is the spitting image of the Cola-company advertisment Father Christmas, even whith red and white paraphenalia. When my dad was a kid, in the countryside the character by the same name went about clad in furs and masks depicting goathead. (See the pentagram allready?) And they for sure were not delivering gifts, but sometimes these evil entities would band up and demand food and drink from the farmsteads they visited.

      Today we have a generation of Finns who have never even heard why the name of Santa in Finnish refers to a goat, but they all are willing to agree, that he sure does not live at the North Pole, but at our very own mountain of Korvatunturi. I suppose the goatheaded demon frightening kids was seen as bit of a poor marketing tool and not a very good image for the travelling agencies trying to sell trips to Finland, at least not nearly as effective, as the bewerage Santa image.

      So, yeah. There is a great resemblance between Jesus and Santa at least on how it gets edited of their respective traditional stories, what the marketing people like to try and sell to the masses of Christianity, wanting to believe in Jesus, and the masses of consumers wanting to believe in Santa.

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      • That is awesome! If that’s a taste of Suomalaiset humour then I want more 🙂

        i like the Joulupukki. European fairytales are brilliantly dark. I think the Americans did our species a disservice in creating unsophisticated, two-dimensional, wimpy and naïve characters like Dorothy.

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      • Haha, the short film I linked spawned a full feature film telling the tale from the beginning. It is called Rare Exports and the same actors as on this short film appear in the final film. You might want ot look it up, if you ever have the opportunity.

        But, yes. The Finnish humour is most often pretty dark and gloomy.

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  12. Pingback: The reality of Archaeological consensus: Moses | paarsurrey

  13. Pingback: Travel in time: Ezekiel | paarsurrey

    • Thank you. I wouldn’t however call it blasphemous, tongue in cheek or even an attempt to shock. More an educational piece for Christians who seem somewhat uninformed about their own religion 😉

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  14. What an interest post my friend.

    One question though for our friend paarsurrey: So are you trying to say that Hadith is not an attendibile source of the Islamic doctrine? Nor AL SEERA AL NABAWIYYA or any other Islamic source that most Muslims in the world agree upon, except for Quran? So you want to discuss only based on this book as other books might be (or are already) wrong?

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      • Paarsurrey is really amazing. If he expresses his thoughts in the middle East and just try to say that Hadith and Seera could be wrong, then I’m sure he won’t survive to the next day as there are many Islamic extremists who would die to save Islam from “heretics” or people who insult Islam. I’m not saying that paarsurrey is insulting Islam, all I’m saying is that so many Muslims will consider his words to be so. But I am so glad that he is (seems to be) open minded, and I just can’t believe I encountered a Muslim like him who is not an extremist in his approach and does accept challenge and replies to questions. I am really happy to have known him and look forward to discuss with him.

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      • I am glad you like Marco’s video 🙂

        I would hesitate to call a religious sect, especially Islam, a peaceful sect. It is like feeling safe sitting near a bomb just because the safety trigger is secure. Well, i still have my doubts and it is better is I still be very skeptic with their regards. This applies to Muslims but can also be generalized to other religions.

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      • Bukhari compiled his book and selected only 2,602 from some 300000 Hadith:

        Al-Bukhari traveled widely throughout the Abbasid empire from the age of 16, collecting those traditions he thought trustworthy. It is said that al-Bukhari collected over 300,000 hadith and included only 2,602 traditions in his Sahih.[6

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahih_al-Bukhari

        That is the reason that Hadith is considered a secondary source and must be got corrected from verses of Quran to understand them correctly.
        Efforts of Bukhari shows that he selected Hadith with this thing in his mind; that must not be forgotten.
        Muhammad is the messenger prophet ;Bukhari never claimed it.

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    • I never said that Hadith is not attend-able.
      Quran is authored by the one true God; and Quran is standard to set right the secondary sources like Hadith and Seerat which never formed the basis of Islam/Quran/Muhammad.
      If one has to measure a thing one has to use a “standard scale” for that; it is just like that; it cannot be other-way round.

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      • Good, so you measure your life and things according to this standard which happens to be the literal word of Allah, namely the Quran, which you believe it is infallible and cannot contains errors and contradictions, and cannot be the source of immoral code or actions, right?

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      • Quran does not oppose science and leaves the physical,material and secular issues to be resolves as per the latest developments in this fields; Quran guides the human beings in the ethical, moral and spiritual dimensions and is a standard for these realms.

        Yes; Quran is standard in the sense as explained above.

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      • From wiki… you can find the actual part in your book by yourself. Seriously, have you ever even read the Qur’an? It seems like you haven’t as you have no idea what’s in there. Any way, enjoy the read:

        Islam shares the creation myth of Judaism and Christianity, spaced out over six periods.[19] The Islamic creation account, like the Hebrew one, involves Adam and Eve as the first parents, living in paradise. As in the Hebrew story, God warns Adam and Eve not to eat fruit from a certain tree, but they do anyway, earning expulsion from Paradise.[20]
        This narrative is further developed in many verses in the Qur’an. According to the Qur’an, the skies and the earth were joined together as one “unit of creation”, after which they were “cloven asunder”.[21] After the parting of both, they simultaneously came into their present shape after going through a phase when they were smoke-like.[22]
        Some parts of the Qur’an state that the process of creation took 6 days.[23] While other parts claim that the process took 8 days: 2 days to create the Earth,[24] 4 days to create the mountains, to bless the Earth and to measure its sustenance,[25] and then 2 more days to create the heavens and the stars.[26]
        However, the consensus among Muslim scholars is that the process of creation took 6 days, not 8; They claim that the 4 days for creating the mountains, blessing the Earth and measuring its sustenance implicitly include the 2 days for creating the Earth. In light of modern scientific knowledge about the origins of the earth and the universe, many modern interpretations particularly by apologists, prefer to view the word “day” (Arabic: يوم) as used in the Qur’an to mean an arbitrary period of time or epoch; They justify this view by explaining that the usage of the word “day” to mean an arbitrary period of time is not uncommon.[citation needed]
        The Qur’an states that God created the world and the cosmos, made all the creatures that walk, swim, crawl, and fly on the face of the earth from water.[21] He made the angels, and the sun, moon and the stars to dwell in the universe. He poured down the rain in torrents, and broke up the soil to bring forth the corn, the grapes and other vegetation; the olive and the palm, the fruit trees and the grass.

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      • “Islam shares the creation myth of Judaism and Christianity, ”

        That is just an opinion . Quran is from the original source of the one true God; Quran does not copy anything from the Bible.

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      • Perhaps its time you actually learnt the history of your religion. It is Judaism 3.0 (Christianity is Judaism 2.0). Islam has the same god (the god of Abraham), the same creation myth, and the same prophets.

        I’m starting to think you’re not actually a Muslim. You didn’t even know Mo rode a winged horse which is one of the most well-known stories in the entire Qur’an.

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      • I hate to contradict you here John, but Paarsurrey is right about the creation myth. Islam doesn’t believe in Adam and Eve created in heaven then because of their sin they were expelled from it. Islam says that Adam and Eve were created from mud, mortals, here on earth (no special place like heaven) and had no special powers and didn’t live forever.

        But also I have to contradict paarsurrey. Islam did copy Judaism and Christianity in many ways. Islam shares the names, Adam, Eve. Islam shares they were created from mud and many other properties and stories.

        Since Islam came around 600 after Christianity, thus the human societies were even more developed (not that much thought) with respect to ancient people, Islam tried to copy the “what made sense of the Judeo-Christian belief” and discarded lots of other, less nonsense, stories like dying on the cross and resurrecting. Being God and the son of God at the same time, bla bla. But still Islam, which is no exception, has lots of other nonsense stories and beliefs that only children could believe (not all children though).

        The Torah and the Bible have many flaws and errors, not to mention the horror and bad teachings. Islam is no exception here and there are many terrible teachings as well as several contradictions (yes contradictions talking about the same argument but each time claiming something different)

        So Hadith is no more than an adjustment to what is not clear in the Quran itself? What about the rest of what Saheeh Al Bukhari collected? Have you ever wondered why they were discarded? And more important, have you ever asked yourself why some stories have been accepted?

        Quran and any other belief system is naive, based on accepting ideas without proof, which is idiotic and insulting to human intelligence. When I tell you about a flying elephant, you start questioning the whole idea and doubt my thoughts as it doesn’t make sense and does not comply with everyday human observations, so you demand proof, and if no proof is given, you either discard what I’ve said or consider me insane. But you do not question any nonsense that none contain the shadow of a proof if this thing has been said by your imaginary friend, God, Allah, Yahwe, or whatever you might want to tag it. This is contradictory to any logic and is clearly a flawed doctrine and naive and idiotic way of thinking.

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      • Not that close my friend. Islam distinguishes between an Earth human day concept, and a day of God. Islam says that one day of God is equivalent to 1000 human years. Here is the original quote from Quran itself:

        “And they urge you to hasten the punishment. But Allah will never fail in His promise. And indeed, a day with your Lord is like a thousand years of those which you count. (Al-Hajj 22:47, English – Sahih International)”. If you want, I can also quote it in Arabic but I doubt you’d understand it, but just in case paarsurrey could read Arabic, here it is

        وَيَسْتَعْجِلُونَكَ بِالْعَذَابِ وَلَنْ يُخْلِفَ اللَّهُ وَعْدَهُ ۚ وَإِنَّ يَوْمًا عِنْدَ رَبِّكَ كَأَلْفِ سَنَةٍ مِمَّا تَعُدُّونَ (Al-Hajj 22:47, Arabic – Original*)

        What paarsurrey doesn’t know, or most probably doesn’t want to talk about is the contradictions within the Quran itself regarding the same argument. From the Quran itself, in another verse, it says that one day of God is equivalent to 50,000 years of human life and here is the source in both God’s preferred language and ugly English:

        تَعْرُجُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ وَالرُّوحُ إِلَيْهِ فِي يَوْمٍ كَانَ مِقْدَارُهُ خَمْسِينَ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ (Al-Maarij 70:4, Arabic – Original*)

        English:
        The angels and the Spirit will ascend to Him during a Day the extent of which is fifty thousand years. (Al-Maarij 70:4, English – Sahih International)

        So it is either God made a terrible mathematical mistake in his inerrant Quran, or he thought that he’d pass under the radar of a skeptic humans who reads it to verify its truth. Unless 1000 = 50,000

        Bonus: Here is another verse that says 1000
        He arranges [each] matter from the heaven to the earth; then it will ascend to Him in a Day, the extent of which is a thousand years of those which you count. (As-Sajda 32:5, English – Sahih International)

        يُدَبِّرُ الْأَمْرَ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ إِلَى الْأَرْضِ ثُمَّ يَعْرُجُ إِلَيْهِ فِي يَوْمٍ كَانَ مِقْدَارُهُ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ مِمَّا تَعُدُّونَ (As-Sajda 32:5, Arabic – Original*)

        I think I would write a separate post on the contradictions in the Quran, this time pointing to the Quran itself as a source in both God’s belove original language (beautiful Arabic) and ugly English.

        Interested in reading it?

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      • I love the spirit of a person who seeks enlightenment and agrees to drop his own ideas when proven wrong. Just the exact opposite of people who claim absolute truth and insist with their ideas in spite of the evidence.

        Way to go Zande!

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      • I told you that a winged horse is not mentioned in Quran.
        Judaism does not mention Allah- the one true God.
        Quran mentions the messengers and prophet of Judaism; as Quran/Islam/Muhammad are not racial.
        Ismail is not a messenger prophet of Judaism.
        I don’t have to follow you; you can have whatever opinion you may like.

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      • Yes it is.

        And your god is the god of Abraham:

        Abraham (mentioned 69 times in the Qur’an) is even described as the Middle Eastern gods best friend: (4:125) “Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to Allah, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For Allah did take Abraham for a friend.”

        See, i have to educate you on your own religion.

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      • Our God is God of all the messenger prophets starting from of Adam- the first human being with whom the one true God had a Converse.The one true God whom Krishna,Buddha, Zoroaster, Moses, Jesus believed in; Abraham was also one such messenger prophet.

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      • Yes, sooooooo you’re god is the god of Abraham: Yahweh, who was once just a lowly demigod in the Canaanite pantheon, one of 70 children of El, the Divine King. Not so impressive now, is he? Paarasurrey, Islam took the Judaic god… didn’t you know this?

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      • Well, Abraham never existed, did he? 😉

        Still, it doesn’t matter one bit if Islam condemns Judaism. Many children disown their parents, don’t they? Same thing… doesn’t change the fact that Islam is Judaism 3.0. You have the same creation myth, same god and same prophets, including Moses (who also didn’t exist) but from whom you take your law.

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  15. John,

    Thanks for visiting my blog and “liking” some of my Miscellaneous Musings.

    I look forward to reading the well written posts on your blog, and have yet to find one that I did not enjoy. The comments following your posts are very entertaining, and I read through them all.

    Keep up the good work, spreading glimmers of light across this religion ravaged dirt ball we call home.

    Like

    • Thank you, my friend. It was just yesterday that i realised i hadn’t seen anything from you and popped over to your blog. I was following, but as i saw, not by email alert. Stupidity since rectified 🙂

      How’s the star gazing?

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  16. This is utter rubbish, John, and you should be ashamed of yourself. You know damn well that Jesus wouldn’t act like that! Jesus is love!

    “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.” – Mt 10:34

    “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.” – Lk 14:26

    Wait, are we only making fun of apocryphal work??? 🙂

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    • Well, Mellow, I read your link… it’s apologetics at its best.

      “The Gospels and Acts are quoted as genuine by ancient writers,
      beginning with writers contemporaneous with the apostles themselves
      and continuing thereafter. This sort of proof is the strongest argument
      for the authenticity of a writing and is regularly used by ordinary
      historians to prove that a particular work came from a certain author.”

      This, for example, is utter rubbish. Pray tell, which of the ancient writers were contemporaneous with the apostles? The interpolations of Josephus, or the second century independent writings? Does the author of the above quote consider any of the scholarship associated with those writings (i.e. Tacitus using the wrong title for Pilate, etc.)? Come now, my friend, this is not difficult to research yourself.

      As for the out of context comment, please explain YOURSELF. No need for links. Why was it out of context?

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  17. Great post. I was aware of other gospels and stories about our blessed lord jeebus, but not aware of what a violent brat he is in Thomas’s. And here I thought I was being clever by writing about hoodlum toddlers. Jesus was one 2000 years ago. That little devil! Great comparison of Jeebus to Batman. Fictional characters always have multiple versions of their story told, especially the popular ones like Jeebus and Batman.

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  18. An excellent comparison John! Saving this one for future use Sir, if I may!? 🙂

    Love this introduction:

    …there are in fact over seventy so-named Apocryphal books that were evidently considered either too outlandish or simply too contradictory by early Christian publicists to make the final grade.

    Going to bring this quote over to your present post to aid in broadening some minds whose osterich-heads are buried deep in sand, or quicksand, whatever their condition might be! 😛

    Liked by 1 person

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