If you mean it’s “god-forsaken” because of “intense human occupation”, then yes, that could be true. If I were a god I’d probably forsake many of the humans around that part of the world.
But if you mean humans and their activities caused the region to become a dust-bowl, you are mistaken. Geography and climate did that on their own.
Intense human occupation coupled with the industrial production of copper. Also, the Dead Sea region was densely populated by workers harvesting salt, bitumen and potash. At one point, the Arava Valley was choked with papyrus.
Well, god had to incarnate into a real person to sacrifice himself for our sins. So he had to do it somewhere. If we was going to really suffer so we can go to heaven, why not incarnate in that dust bowl at that time in history — great place to make a point.
Then only make yourself known through a book, but order that translated so everyone could know your Semitic self.
Perfect plan, if you ask me.
Great graphic, John. Well done.
God sacrificed himself, to himself, to save humanity from himself…. Makes about as much sense as the geographical selection of all earthly contact, which is only ever with one person, who is always alone. Epilepsy, anyone? 🙂
Hehehe. Reading an interesting book right now where the character likens discussing “gods” motives (and attributes) to the character himself contemplating the author of the book.
I am having a conversation with an Evangelical about Investment and thus my two posts today. Your graphic fit in perfectly so I borrowed it — adding links and kudos, of course. So thank you.
How often do I have to explain to youse dum atheists that the Chosen People ain’t everybody? How can you have a privileged SELECT few if He chose everyone equally, huh? Sheesh …
You see, right there, that should have been the first Red Flag for any rational person; the Jews included. Second Red Flag: the supposed land of milk and honey gifted to said “chosen people” by most benevolent God. In local Real Estate talk I think the Canaanite hills are referred to as “Renovators Delight,” and “Needs love.”
I think the three major religions are still dealing with the fact that the stars are not what they thought they were when some bright ass in the NT talked about them falling from the sky. The vastness of what’s out there will take some time catching up to for them.
Yeah, couldn’t quite find the appropriate shape. A triangle almost worked (that’s how I got the square kilometers), but wasn’t as catchy as the trusted round thing.
And not only that but said god trusted illiterate goat herds and fishermen (The fish was t h i s big!) to make sure its message got around … eventually … maybe.
It’s like Obama whispering his entire monetary and fiscal/domestic and foreign policies to a gardener (who trims the hedges at Elliot Field in Chadron, Nebraska) then hoping the message gets out…
Of course he did it all there! The Jews were his chosen people, and the Muslims their jealous half-brothers. Duh! Christians can accept this on the basis that they know they’re the red-headed step children and God shot his wad early-on. He doesn’t do much now, though. He’s sittin’ back enjoying his cigar.
Hmmm….this is why he uses natural disasters to accomplish spiritual cleansing. Not only is a it a crude means of population control, it also teaches us not to screw with the environment.
Oh, that typhoon obliterated almost the entire population of a nation? Take that! See how it feels when the environment screws with you!
Don’t be such a nitwit!
he had to make an appearance in the land of Sunniclimes.
Imagine JC Appearing to a bunch of Inuits in that get up? ( sandals and a dress) He’d have frozen his meat an’ two veg in two minutes flat.
Read Debilis, Mark Hamilton,Prayson etc.
If there is just one person who is so insecure, so emotionally out on a limb you can clearly understand why this nonsense gets accepted and believed and why that dickhead in Waco was able to do his thing.
Remember that bloke who was a pastor, Brian, who and tried to tell me there was ”evidence” on the bottom of the Red Sea of the Exodus”?
These are supposedly educated adults. Blows my mind.
This is why the world needs the likes of ( former fundamentalist believers) Nate and a few others to have a ”Roadshow” and kick this crap in the crotch once and for all.
Not to split hairs, but if your circle is actually where you itnend it to be its simply factually wrong, even on the most simplistic reading of those texts – did you forget about Egypt, or Babylon?. Further if you make it to the first paragraph of the Tanakh/Bible you’ll know its not just confined there.
That’s just by way of technical point – not that i think that is actually your point but anyway….
So? Yhwh doesn’t do anything there. Daniel has “visions…” ie. epileptic fits. It did stuff in Egypt and in Canaan. That’s it. Not even Mo’man “met” Yhwh.
Daniel is replete with claims that God did X or Y (remember the Lions den?) so i think we can say He was active there. Also check out Isaiah 45 if you want more.
Plus the garden of eden was on the banks of the euphrates…
Um, doesn’t the title of your post read “every alleged action of God…”. Daniel and Isaiah allege these to be actions of God. As did Jonah (chpt 4). Since you (seemingly) don’t believe any of it really took place why are yous plitting hairs?
I’ll accept some ambiguity about euphrates as it says its on a river that becomes euphrates.
Still there is more than enough evidecne to merit a revisoin of your map.
c’mon John, show us you’re a man dedicated to the truth, even when ridiculing…!
Good point! Although, wait, doesn’t this pose a teensy weensy problem?
Because i assume the real intent of your post is to show a supposedly geographically narrow God. Now you are showing thst *you* are the one who is narrowing God, not taht God is himself narrow. Because it seems we agree that God sent his angels all over the place….
Either way i think you owe us simple folk a bit more clarity….
It only seems awkward because of the implied assumptions, which are probably that this means god had no interest in other peoples, locations etc. that simply isn’t the case. Every now and then the text itself has followers of this god pop up from unexpected places (e.g. Melchizedek, the magi, etc). Romans certainly seems to suggest that although god has made his most definitive revelation in Jesus, and through the Jewish story, that doesn’t mean he had no interest in anyone else. And the truth is we simply don’t know what he was up to elsewhere. Take away the assumptions and consider the fact that gods recorded acts are in the center of ancient civilised settlement (at least according to Wikipedia) and it starts to look less and less awkward.
Wait John, if an atheist had asked you for a widening of the circle for accuracy sake, would you have been as argumentative.
Actually, now that I look at the map, for Christians, you have Paul’s journey to Rome and Turkey. But maybe you only want the alleged Jesus revelation — though Paul made Christianity, it seems. Heck, Jesus could have been fictitious. So I agree with Clap — to be accurate, you should include any report.
But maybe you are only trying to get a point across and don’t care about accuracy — hmmmm?
For if you were trying to be accurate, Mecca and Medina are not in the circle and need to be! I still think the point is made if you expand to be more accurate.
But I get that it would be a pain.
Maybe I will make my own map and try to oblige Clap’s good observations.
Mo never met Allah/Yhwh. The Angel Gabriel visited him… supposedly, of course. Can anyone spell Epilepsy? The meme says “acts” of the Christian/Muslim/Jewish god. For that we have Abraham, Moses, some tagging along with Joshua, and Jesus. Technically i should have Ur, but then the circle becomes completely non-representative.
Since angels and prophets are under his command (according to the story) and thus his actions — he sent the angles and prophets, I’d include them. But it is your map and you don’t even want to include Ur because ….. hmmmm, not sure why.
Yes, John… you’re being the difficult one, making the issue you raise about the very small circle compared to the globe really all about justifying a fractionally larger circle… as if that counters the point you raise.
So you guys are all going to pat each other on the back saying, “What a stupid insignificant correction. The point of the thing is right. Let’s make fun of them.”
Really classy boys. Seems like a sad example of close mindedness flying the superior-rationalists here. Instead of polite agreement, you belittle a rational challenge. What type of world are you trying to make again?
Calm down, Sabio, you’re getting too worked up over this. It’s really quite simple: Yhwh appeared to Abraham, Moses and, we can say, Jesus… who was actually Yhwh. Granted, Abraham’s first “meeting” was in Ur, and the circle doesn’t include that. It really doesn’t matter, though. The point is the geographic isolation of the god in question. We’re not talking about “influence,” just the oddity of the tiny bubble.
“Settle down”? Interesting rhetoric. Remember, this all began because you were far from settled down when Clapham made a polite, rational objection.
So, if you agree now the Ur should have been included, look back at your exchange with Clapham (3:44 pam 1/21/14). A more honest and polite response could have been.
“Ah, thanks Clapham, good point, but I still think my graphic makes my point. I really don’t feel like changing it.”
We can always rely on Sabio to try to moderate what he assumes is the correct tone others should use but when a innocuous comment describing his own comes his way, it suddenly becomes ‘interesting rhetoric’.
John’s annoyance at Clapham’s quibbling about exacting boundaries rather than addressing the post’s point – the remarkable yet tiny geographical nature of where gods apparently reveal themselves – is hardly “far from settling down” to excuse Sabio’s continued criticizing the lack of detailed accounting that moves the boundaries hardly at all and the point he raises not one nanometer (not that the post’s point matters to Sabio when he can join in elevating the quibbling in order to pretend that the character of an atheist is really what’s in question).
oh contrare i so loved john’s graphic and its message that i used it on my own blog , crediting him of course and complimenting his work it was the handling of the issue note, when i corrected his spelling, John fixed it gladly. But when a theist made a polite suggestion the gates opened.
i really like John’s blog but feel no meed to do the atheist goosestep.
There’s no ‘au contrare’, Sabio. Again, you miss addressing the point of directed criticism by evading it and then blame others. For example, I said we could count on you “to try to moderate what (you) assume is the correct tone others should use.” Lo and behold, on your own site, you state, “I was disappointed by his argumentation style.” So where’s the ‘au contrare’ or your response? Missing in action, as usual, while implying that because I dare to criticize you for your attempt to police others, I must therefore be doing the ‘atheist goosestep.’ What a surprise! Not. I also said that it is typical for you to “join in elevating the quibbling in order to pretend that the character of an atheist is really what’s in question.” Lo and behold, your criticism of my point about your commenting methods is – no surprise – to evade it once again… and then blame me for my lack of character by suggesting that I’m apparently just following atheist orders like a good little Nazi.
Yeah, you are the voice of corrective reason and intellectual integrity here, aren’t you, Sabio.
i really like John’s blog but feel no meed (sic) to do the atheist goosestep.
Yes, it is a good blog… one where all kinds of people can say all kinds of stuff that may or may not support the post. In fact, one doesn’t even have to follow a preset and policed tone. You think so highly of this, for example, that on your own blog anyone can… oh wait… you’ve banned me for my tone daring not to join in the Sabio Goosestep.
Now there’s an ‘au contrare’ for you. So which side of your mouth are speaking out of this time: your real voice or the smooth tone selling the fictitious Sabio version of intellectual integrity?
Just saying if we’re going to talk about “embarassing geography” maybe we should get the facts straight – lest we get really geographically embarrassed ;-).
Myth or not your post is about alleged acts, so we should acknowledge that the alleged acts you refer to do not in fact only take place in that circle. I don’t suppose you’d like to publish a coorrection, maybe for the benefit of your first commenter above? They seem to be a person who likes correect facts 😉
My first reaction was also, that the circle is too small. In that sense my first reaction would have been to agree with Chapman Common Tree on this. 🙂 People claim all sorts of miracles all around the Christendom today. None, that are verified in any way reliable, not even the ones that could be verified by very simple testing.
Then again, even if we include Babylon and the Mediterranean isles of the Biblical times, it is still an embarresingly small circle. On the other hand what a god alledgedly does or does not is a funny question altogether, though not the point of the post, if I understood it correctly.
For example, god alledgedly told he would help Nebuchadnezzar destroy Tyros to the ground and conquer Egypt, but did nothing of the sort. So, the Tyros event is an alledged act of god, that did not ever happen, so altough it is outside the circle, does it fall under the alledged acts of god, or not, since nothing nearly as “wondrous” really happened? The conquest of Egypt by Nebuchadnezzar fits perfectly within the circle, but it does not happen either, so is it an act of god, or what? However, even if Nebuchandezzar would have destroyed Tyros, and conqured Egypt, what justification could we possibly have to claim that this was an act of a god? Are we warranted to think it is a god acting because someone (alledgedly beforehand) claimed this god would act this way? Conquests happen all the time without any gods interfering and it is not very hard to make predictions of an ambitious general/king to succeed in his attempts to widen his rule, is it? It is a 50/50% bet. Did Ezekiel simply make a bad bet?
How many people throughout history have claimed that this very same god would destroy the world on a certain date, and that has not happened? If you only count hits, and never the misses, then such predictions may start to look miraculous. A claim and even any particular event itself are not very good evidence for a god to have interfered, are they? A common thing like a conquest is evidence of such common things happening and the profecy about it is evidence that it was not that hard to guess it would take place. Nothing more. A prophesy of an extraordinary event still is not really evidence about any gods or other unnatural entities as such, is it? How many deeds have so many gods been claimed to have done?
The deeds of gods are suspiciously closely tied to the cultural spheres where such gods are known at all. Quetzacoatl never ever did any miracles in the Middle-East and Jesus never did any miracles in Mexico, before the Conquistadores arrived and brought him with them, but after that the “miracles” attributed to Quetzacoatl before 1492 were slowly recognized as the miracles done by Jesus & Palls… The reason why Quetzacoatl never did miracles in the Middle east is obviously a direct result to the fact, that the Middle-East was never conquered by the Aztecs. Is it not?
I didn’t count the prophets and their alleged visions, just the actual “Hello, I’m Yhwh” events, leaving only eastern Egypt and the Canaanite hills. Ur could be included, but then i’d have to draw another circle in western Iraq the size of a pixel.
Ha ha! a pixel for Ur! 🙂 Ur!!! One of my favourite historical characters is Uru-Ka-Gina of Ur, who lived long before the alledged appearance of Yhwh and obviously had higher morals than this alledged god.
Too much in here to deal with but perhaps just on Ezekiel 26. The prophecy is that “many nations” will come against tyre (v3) and not just neb.neb will take the mainland (v8) which he does. The Greeks (another nation) finish the job of the island. Hope that helps clear that up.
That seems to be referring to the people of Petra, and it doesn’t seem to say the god of the Tankh did anything?
“The people of al-Hijr denied the Messengers. We brought them Our Signs but they turned away from them. They carved out houses from the mountains, feeling safe, but the Great Blast seized hold of them in the morning, so all that they earned was of no use to them.”
(Qur’an, 15:80-84)
“Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon drove his army in a hard campaign against Tyre; every head was rubbed bare and every shoulder made raw. Yet he and his army got no reward from the campaign he led against Tyre.
My point was not to divert the conversation wether or not the Ezekiel prophesies were true, but to point out, that the tiny speck on the map John posted was big enough, if we only count the actual alledged acts of a particular god, and discount the acts men have done alledgedly powered by this god and all the natural events that have been explained by this god. Because there is no way of measuring or estimating wether for example a general/king conquering, or losing, or a big flood drowning land was in any way a result of a god interfering. Same goes for all men alledgedly acting on behalf of a god and all natural events.
Even if all the Bible prophesies had come true (wich I claim has not happened), that would not tell us anything about the truth value of the Bible. Because after the fact recorded vague prophesies by superstitious, or simply religious men would either act in order to fullfill the prophesies, fit events to seem like the prophesies came to pass and naturally discard all the prophesies that did not come to pass – as they do today about the prophesies made about the end of the world, that we have had many during the last two millenia. Now, if any of those would have come to pass, and someone would have somehow survived the event, that particular prediction might have been raised from among all the failed ones as being inspired by a god, but even if it was, it would have been totally useless as a prediction hidden among so many other like it.
As with religions in general, since no particular religion collectively raises above the others in plausibility a religion is a useless method to convey to humans, that a god exists – and one would expect a god would understand that. Unless, that god is malevolent, it seems like extraordinarily unlikely suggestion to exist in this light.
Hey, ya gotta start somewhere. This was a just test market to work out the kinks. And as you well know, sales skyrocketed with the addition of two new product lines and a boost in the advertising budget.
But all joking aside, its hard to deny that the three major franchises eventually captured a global market and the sign outside now reads: Billions and Billions duped. And that’s no laughing matter.
Hindus, Buddhists and Shinto’ists might have a word to say about “global” market, but there’s no doubt those missionaries did a fine number on gullible Europeans and Arabs.
Presenting military might, conquest, providing political and arms support to dissident usurpers and commercial embargo, were the most impressive conversion techniques for both Christianity and Islam. Even more than the genral gullibility (and ignorance) of the people. It was Crusaders who converted my people. Oh yes, people were propably very impressed by the new god after they had been first beaten in battle. But perhaps the creator of the universe is petty enough to take sides in wars to help out his supporters.
“In my experience, God sides with the army, that has the stronger artillery.” J. Stalin.
Yeah, the sword was mightier, and more effective than the book. In Australia the missionaries simply took the aboriginal children and placed them in white Christian family homes. An ugly chapter of our history.
I bet they could not have done that, if the parents of the kids could have chosen, but missionaries often have had the military might behind their backs. They do have other means to appeal to the desperation, addictiveness, loneliness, superstitions and especially fear of the unknown, to get their message through, though.
Well, it helped when you (the Jews, that is) were nothing but a cluster of angst-ridden hill villages surrounded by empires over which you had no control. A little comforting lie goes a long way. Unfortunately, it went a tad too far.
Actually, The Book of Mormon informs us that Jesus toured the Americas right after his resurrection.
“Jesus Christ did show himself unto the people of Nephi, as the multitude were gathered together in the land Bountiful, and did minister unto them; and on this wise did he show himself unto them. 3 Nephi 11
Looks a lot like a crater to me, but why would aliens sit on the moon anyway? They could perch themselves quite happily at a Lagrangian point, or even in high earth orbit and no one would be any the wiser.
Either many folks have been taken in by a hoax or the crater has been air-brushed over and if you visited you got there post-edit …
The image posted was of a right-angle, each arm of which had seven equidistant lights (or reflective points). To my mind it looks very much like an artefact although I don’t go along with aliens or gods.
Dammit, I’ll copy and post in Forestall. If a hoax the UK’s tabloids have been taken in … I don’t peruse them but do follow interesting links (and enjoy the pretty damsels whilst there).
If (and it’s a big ‘if’) it’s not a hoax then it begs explanation.
With the best will in the world although I know it is perfectly possible to throw a thousand heads (or tails) in a row it’s not all that likely. Likewise random arrangements of pixels coming up with that.
So I choose to run with an intelligence being involved, whether that be undisclosed landings by Earthies, or sneaky aliens, or earthbound hoaxers.
I’d say the probabilities weigh most heavily on hoaxers; substantially on earth governments trying to be secret, with just a remote chance of aliens. Very remote …
Well, if you look really, really, really closely there is a circle around Ur… It’s smaller than a pixel, but I assure you its there. Have faith in me 🙂
If God has to have a chosen people, why not stick them in the most God-forsaken promised land He could find and make them constantly fight to remain there? I think his idea of entertainment is Sisyphus, so He couldn’t have chosen better. Besides, I checked with my good buddies over at the Creation Research Institute and discovered that that’s the exact location of the center of the universe. It only makes sense if you stop to think about it.
I would argue that God chose this region because, well, he/she threw a dart at a map, and that is where it happened to land. Because what kind of a god wouldn’t enjoy throwing darts at a map to make critical decisions?
… and, being god it always hits the bulls-eye, and, if the planet just happened to be facing the right way at the precise moment the dart left its hands then… Viola! Chosen people all sorted!
The northern hairy-nosed wombat is dirtier but going to all the bother of actually saying “you’re a filthy northern hairy-nosed wombat” doesn’t quite roll as easily off the tongue.
God had to be somewhere specific, and that tiny area was the most fertile for belief. Had he gone to Australia, his message wouldn’t have left that part of the world and had he gone further into Asia, those guys wouldn’t have cared.
I saw this graphic on someone else’s post last week on my reader (triangleman?) and thought it was very clever. Should have know it was you. Creeping over, I agree with all the chat above that you should widen it to include all the other action points mentioned. Because it’s still an absurdly tiny area for any alleged creator of all things to hang around in. When he looked at all his creation and decided Noah was the only one worth keeping, do Christians really feel confident he thoroughly checked for one half-decent person in South America or Australia, or Japan or China? All those millions of irrelevant people worth only a good smite. It’s such a loving religion.
Yes, Sabio changed the meme. I don’t think it was necessary, but who am i to judge. The only other action point was Ur, and I’ve already inserted the circle. It’s unfortunately smaller than a pixel so you can’t actually see it, but believe me, its there.
I did! I caught up on all your posts first because you’re my favourite blogger. 🙂 So I just went back to look at it again and it’s so long and there are so many comments, I’m going to have to schedule into next week for a serious re-read. I think I’m going to go on another blog break soon – I seriously can’t keep up the pace and get far too irritated with ‘wrong’ opinions. It’s not good for the health!
Yes, how dare people have opposing opinions! The nerve of some mollusks, it beggars belief. Is it beggars or buggers belief? Buggers certainly sounds better and has more immediacy to it. It buggers belief! Yes, it must be that, its settled, and I don’t want to hear any contradictory opinions on the matter.
I found your utterly fascinating and even exciting blog via (no surprise) the Pink Agendist. We’ll get to know one another, but I’m not an Atheist … I’m nominally an Episcopalian, but I don’t believe in any God … just good works, which the church does here in New York. Anyway, you’ve got my interest … for sure !
Chuck geography – lets talk art. (Unless Scientology lays claim to Temple Mount, then I’ll talk geography again) I’m rather fond of the earliest depictions of Jesus.The bible never said what he looked like – pagans were partial to female Gods so Jesus was given “man boobs”, rounded hips and a childish face – in fact, Jesus was generally drawn as a happy go lucky, pretty little Apollo wannabe. Until the middle ages dictated a tortured, angst ridden sufferer would garner obedience. Unfortunate in hind-sight geography got in the way – Jesus could have spent a thousand years rocking a pygmy head hunter look. Sigh.
It’s one of those oddities, isn’t it, that this allegedly wonderful teacher wandered around with thousands waiting on his words, yet no one ever drew a picture of him, let alone left a physical description, or even a piece of graffiti…. Mmmm
There is an exellent description of this dust and other such problems by the Italian playwrite and thespian Dario Fo, in his Mistero Buffo, where he tells the stories (among other stories) of the wedding at Canaan and reanimation of Lazarus as seen by drunken bystanders. And as the stories are not described by the fan boys of Jesus, but by some other people, the Vatican called the story: “the most blasmephous story in history of television”. And we do know how different the descriptions of outsiders and fans tend to be… It is funny, and I recommend it to everybody, but especially to any Christians, if they are not too affraid their “loving” god might exclude them from the blisfull afterlife for peeping on the other side of faith… And art.
I find it interesting that no where in such texts do they mention the thousands of tons of copper that were mined by the advanced culture that occupied north America long before Europeans colonized bringing the “modern” gods along with them. Those silly bastards think their culture was the first, just the most recent, and probably not as progressive.
According to Phillip Cowpens in his book The Lost Civilization Enigma most of it was shuttled back to old Europe (in about 6000 BCE) to be combined with European tin for Bronze production.
6,000 BCE! Damn, if that can be shown to be true it’s going to require a lot of rewriting of the history books. Wouldn’t be the first time, and I’m sure it won’t be the last.
I’ve always been fond of Mu. It’s outlandish, but James Churchward did do an awful lot of work tracing linguistics back to this “lost” continent. His book was a great read.
There are certainly lots of particulars like that to take into consideration. That may be a great level to carry up. I provide the thoughts above as general inspiration but clearly there are questions like the one you convey up the place the most important factor will be working in honest good faith. I don?t know if best practices have emerged around things like that, but I’m certain that your job is clearly recognized as a fair game. Each boys and girls really feel the impression of just a second’s pleasure, for the rest of their lives.
thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com 
In a 4.5 100.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 km universe. (add some zeros for volume)
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Oh, that’s for another meme! 🙂
Here’s a great graphic for that:
http://imgur.com/e9DJjCo
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Briliant!
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And if you were to pick a nice spot for your “Holy Land”, why that miserable god-forsaken dust bowl?
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Agreed! Tahiti would have been far more appropriate. Ask yourself: lobster platter, or falafel?
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The reason it is a miserable god-forsaken dust bowl is because of intense human occupation. Let that be a lesson to us.
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Ramen to that! Let there be vertical farms
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Hi Susan,
If you mean it’s “god-forsaken” because of “intense human occupation”, then yes, that could be true. If I were a god I’d probably forsake many of the humans around that part of the world.
But if you mean humans and their activities caused the region to become a dust-bowl, you are mistaken. Geography and climate did that on their own.
Sincerely,
MichaelJ
@MethodLead
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Intense human occupation coupled with the industrial production of copper. Also, the Dead Sea region was densely populated by workers harvesting salt, bitumen and potash. At one point, the Arava Valley was choked with papyrus.
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Well, god had to incarnate into a real person to sacrifice himself for our sins. So he had to do it somewhere. If we was going to really suffer so we can go to heaven, why not incarnate in that dust bowl at that time in history — great place to make a point.
Then only make yourself known through a book, but order that translated so everyone could know your Semitic self.
Perfect plan, if you ask me.
Great graphic, John. Well done.
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God sacrificed himself, to himself, to save humanity from himself…. Makes about as much sense as the geographical selection of all earthly contact, which is only ever with one person, who is always alone. Epilepsy, anyone? 🙂
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Exactly my point. But God’s wisdom is beyond us. Who are we to doubt God’s ways.
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Ahem…
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Oh, little pot, you dare doubt the potter?
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Hehehe. Reading an interesting book right now where the character likens discussing “gods” motives (and attributes) to the character himself contemplating the author of the book.
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I am having a conversation with an Evangelical about Investment and thus my two posts today. Your graphic fit in perfectly so I borrowed it — adding links and kudos, of course. So thank you.
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Knock yourself out. It’s all here to share.
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PS – John, does your last name actually have two “A”s in it. The graphic has it as such.
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Ooops, fixed.
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What I find conspicuously odd
Is this world looks round not flat
The little corners show a bosomy curve
Just how do you explain all that
Each spherical face in front and back
Has a rotund circular side
I can’t understand your concern
About where a god wants to reside
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Arghhh, my lyrical mind is not working!
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I don’t mind. In fact I’m rather glad. 🙂
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There ya go again, John. Trying to confuse folks with facts.
((Keep up the good work !! )
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Awkward facts are the funnest 🙂
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How often do I have to explain to youse dum atheists that the Chosen People ain’t everybody? How can you have a privileged SELECT few if He chose everyone equally, huh? Sheesh …
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You see, right there, that should have been the first Red Flag for any rational person; the Jews included. Second Red Flag: the supposed land of milk and honey gifted to said “chosen people” by most benevolent God. In local Real Estate talk I think the Canaanite hills are referred to as “Renovators Delight,” and “Needs love.”
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Nice map! Was sent this today and thought you might like it
All the best 🙂
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Sorry, the link isn’t working. I’ll send it via Fb. 🙂
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OK
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Ah, yes, saw this a few weeks ago when the publisher leaked some hints. I love the boat!
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It only natural that God appear on planet Earth because nobody lives on the Moon.
Until we go out into the wide universe and find Jesus Alien, mankind will simply have to learn how to cope with being geographically embarrassed.
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Alien Jesus… I LOVE IT!
The point, though, SOM was this god being rather geographically embarrassed just here on old terra firma.
SOM, follow this link (below). Scroll slowly all the way down through the graphic tiles. The message at the end is priceless.
http://imgur.com/e9DJjCo
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“It only natural that God appear on planet Earth because nobody lives on the Moon.”
Really SOM? You think the moon connotes the extent of what’s out there? Did you not click on to John’s link here? http://imgur.com/e9DJjCo
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I think the three major religions are still dealing with the fact that the stars are not what they thought they were when some bright ass in the NT talked about them falling from the sky. The vastness of what’s out there will take some time catching up to for them.
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Describing the sky as a tent was a tad erroneous, too 🙂
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And most of this circle is either desert or sea…
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Yeah, couldn’t quite find the appropriate shape. A triangle almost worked (that’s how I got the square kilometers), but wasn’t as catchy as the trusted round thing.
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And not only that but said god trusted illiterate goat herds and fishermen (The fish was t h i s big!) to make sure its message got around … eventually … maybe.
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It’s like Obama whispering his entire monetary and fiscal/domestic and foreign policies to a gardener (who trims the hedges at Elliot Field in Chadron, Nebraska) then hoping the message gets out…
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I checked out the link and that is a genuine “Step back, I don’t know how large this thing gets” moment!
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Jesus’ message though is terribly important 🙂
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That area must have needed Him the most.
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That’s an interesting thought, but a father who plays favourites isn’t really a very good dad at all.
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Of course he did it all there! The Jews were his chosen people, and the Muslims their jealous half-brothers. Duh! Christians can accept this on the basis that they know they’re the red-headed step children and God shot his wad early-on. He doesn’t do much now, though. He’s sittin’ back enjoying his cigar.
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And why not! Humanity has everything under control, and spaceship earth is looking fantastically healthy 😦
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Geez…He got the whole thing started, you don’t expect him to do everything do ya?
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A few Amendments to the Godly Constitution would be nice…
Amendment #1: For the love of all that’s holy DON’T screw with the environment!
Sub-clause 1.A: DON’T, under any circumstances, exceed five billion population.
etc
etc
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Hmmm….this is why he uses natural disasters to accomplish spiritual cleansing. Not only is a it a crude means of population control, it also teaches us not to screw with the environment.
Oh, that typhoon obliterated almost the entire population of a nation? Take that! See how it feels when the environment screws with you!
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Ohhh, nicely played! 🙂
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Don’t be such a nitwit!
he had to make an appearance in the land of Sunniclimes.
Imagine JC Appearing to a bunch of Inuits in that get up? ( sandals and a dress) He’d have frozen his meat an’ two veg in two minutes flat.
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Well, granted, JC was a liberal hippy, but his dad surely owns a woolly jacket or two, right?
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I think the whole story is a bit woolly to be honest.
And then we’re on to “his” dad being “Himself” and wotnot.
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Said it before, but its worth repeating: it baffles the mind how this nonsense lasted through the Enlightenment.
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Read Debilis, Mark Hamilton,Prayson etc.
If there is just one person who is so insecure, so emotionally out on a limb you can clearly understand why this nonsense gets accepted and believed and why that dickhead in Waco was able to do his thing.
Remember that bloke who was a pastor, Brian, who and tried to tell me there was ”evidence” on the bottom of the Red Sea of the Exodus”?
These are supposedly educated adults. Blows my mind.
This is why the world needs the likes of ( former fundamentalist believers) Nate and a few others to have a ”Roadshow” and kick this crap in the crotch once and for all.
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They can tag-team with Rabbis. That’d be quite a show!
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Signed,
Love God
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Well that went in the wrong place somehow.
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Now that is geographically embarrassing!
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Hehehe, I understood the intent 🙂
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Not to split hairs, but if your circle is actually where you itnend it to be its simply factually wrong, even on the most simplistic reading of those texts – did you forget about Egypt, or Babylon?. Further if you make it to the first paragraph of the Tanakh/Bible you’ll know its not just confined there.
That’s just by way of technical point – not that i think that is actually your point but anyway….
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Eastern Egypt is included, and Yhwh did nothing in Babylon.
You really want to bring up the creation myth?
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Sorry, i mised the first line of this. The whole book of Daniel is set in Babylon, including the appearance of the 4th person in the furnace.
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So? Yhwh doesn’t do anything there. Daniel has “visions…” ie. epileptic fits. It did stuff in Egypt and in Canaan. That’s it. Not even Mo’man “met” Yhwh.
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Daniel is replete with claims that God did X or Y (remember the Lions den?) so i think we can say He was active there. Also check out Isaiah 45 if you want more.
Plus the garden of eden was on the banks of the euphrates…
Jonah was in Nineveh…
Should i go on?
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“Plus the garden of eden was on the banks of the euphrates”
B’wahahahaaaa… Really? Must have missed that GPS note in Genesis.
Isiah is also seeing visions…. ie. epileptic fits. Daniel is visited by an angel, NOT Yhwh, who might just as easily been Beelzebub.
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Um, doesn’t the title of your post read “every alleged action of God…”. Daniel and Isaiah allege these to be actions of God. As did Jonah (chpt 4). Since you (seemingly) don’t believe any of it really took place why are yous plitting hairs?
I’ll accept some ambiguity about euphrates as it says its on a river that becomes euphrates.
Still there is more than enough evidecne to merit a revisoin of your map.
c’mon John, show us you’re a man dedicated to the truth, even when ridiculing…!
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Who says the angels came from Yhwh? Aren’t demons the great deceivers? I will only accept “acts of the god.”
Burning bush anyone?
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Good point! Although, wait, doesn’t this pose a teensy weensy problem?
Because i assume the real intent of your post is to show a supposedly geographically narrow God. Now you are showing thst *you* are the one who is narrowing God, not taht God is himself narrow. Because it seems we agree that God sent his angels all over the place….
Either way i think you owe us simple folk a bit more clarity….
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Stop being difficult for difficulty’s sake 🙂
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OK – but only cos you asked nicely…;-)
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BTW speaking of bushes, Jonah 4, God cauess a leafy plant to grow outside nineveh… Case closed.
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Granted, and as I said to Sab, technically I should include Ur, but then the circle would be completely unrepresentative.
This doesn’t, of course, alleviate any awkward embarrassment for the believer in this god.
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It only seems awkward because of the implied assumptions, which are probably that this means god had no interest in other peoples, locations etc. that simply isn’t the case. Every now and then the text itself has followers of this god pop up from unexpected places (e.g. Melchizedek, the magi, etc). Romans certainly seems to suggest that although god has made his most definitive revelation in Jesus, and through the Jewish story, that doesn’t mean he had no interest in anyone else. And the truth is we simply don’t know what he was up to elsewhere. Take away the assumptions and consider the fact that gods recorded acts are in the center of ancient civilised settlement (at least according to Wikipedia) and it starts to look less and less awkward.
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Wait John, if an atheist had asked you for a widening of the circle for accuracy sake, would you have been as argumentative.
Actually, now that I look at the map, for Christians, you have Paul’s journey to Rome and Turkey. But maybe you only want the alleged Jesus revelation — though Paul made Christianity, it seems. Heck, Jesus could have been fictitious. So I agree with Clap — to be accurate, you should include any report.
But maybe you are only trying to get a point across and don’t care about accuracy — hmmmm?
For if you were trying to be accurate, Mecca and Medina are not in the circle and need to be! I still think the point is made if you expand to be more accurate.
But I get that it would be a pain.
Maybe I will make my own map and try to oblige Clap’s good observations.
Just questioning the argumentation?
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Mo never met Allah/Yhwh. The Angel Gabriel visited him… supposedly, of course. Can anyone spell Epilepsy? The meme says “acts” of the Christian/Muslim/Jewish god. For that we have Abraham, Moses, some tagging along with Joshua, and Jesus. Technically i should have Ur, but then the circle becomes completely non-representative.
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Since angels and prophets are under his command (according to the story) and thus his actions — he sent the angles and prophets, I’d include them. But it is your map and you don’t even want to include Ur because ….. hmmmm, not sure why.
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… consider the fact that gods (sic) recorded acts are in the center of ancient civilised settlement…
…and conveniently forget about all the other civilized settlements in order to claim a ‘center’ with the one already chosen!
“The confirmation biases is strong with this one.”
– A Darth paraphrase
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Yes, John… you’re being the difficult one, making the issue you raise about the very small circle compared to the globe really all about justifying a fractionally larger circle… as if that counters the point you raise.
Good grief. Some people’s children…
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🙂 Your circle is 10 nanometers too damn small! See, god exists!
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So you guys are all going to pat each other on the back saying, “What a stupid insignificant correction. The point of the thing is right. Let’s make fun of them.”
Really classy boys. Seems like a sad example of close mindedness flying the superior-rationalists here. Instead of polite agreement, you belittle a rational challenge. What type of world are you trying to make again?
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Calm down, Sabio, you’re getting too worked up over this. It’s really quite simple: Yhwh appeared to Abraham, Moses and, we can say, Jesus… who was actually Yhwh. Granted, Abraham’s first “meeting” was in Ur, and the circle doesn’t include that. It really doesn’t matter, though. The point is the geographic isolation of the god in question. We’re not talking about “influence,” just the oddity of the tiny bubble.
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BTW, did you see this is now on Pathos? Who’s James McGrath?
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“Settle down”? Interesting rhetoric. Remember, this all began because you were far from settled down when Clapham made a polite, rational objection.
So, if you agree now the Ur should have been included, look back at your exchange with Clapham (3:44 pam 1/21/14). A more honest and polite response could have been.
“Ah, thanks Clapham, good point, but I still think my graphic makes my point. I really don’t feel like changing it.”
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I like Clap. I wasn’t rude, just friendly sparring.
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We can always rely on Sabio to try to moderate what he assumes is the correct tone others should use but when a innocuous comment describing his own comes his way, it suddenly becomes ‘interesting rhetoric’.
John’s annoyance at Clapham’s quibbling about exacting boundaries rather than addressing the post’s point – the remarkable yet tiny geographical nature of where gods apparently reveal themselves – is hardly “far from settling down” to excuse Sabio’s continued criticizing the lack of detailed accounting that moves the boundaries hardly at all and the point he raises not one nanometer (not that the post’s point matters to Sabio when he can join in elevating the quibbling in order to pretend that the character of an atheist is really what’s in question).
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oh contrare i so loved john’s graphic and its message that i used it on my own blog , crediting him of course and complimenting his work it was the handling of the issue note, when i corrected his spelling, John fixed it gladly. But when a theist made a polite suggestion the gates opened.
i really like John’s blog but feel no meed to do the atheist goosestep.
>
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There’s no ‘au contrare’, Sabio. Again, you miss addressing the point of directed criticism by evading it and then blame others. For example, I said we could count on you “to try to moderate what (you) assume is the correct tone others should use.” Lo and behold, on your own site, you state, “I was disappointed by his argumentation style.” So where’s the ‘au contrare’ or your response? Missing in action, as usual, while implying that because I dare to criticize you for your attempt to police others, I must therefore be doing the ‘atheist goosestep.’ What a surprise! Not. I also said that it is typical for you to “join in elevating the quibbling in order to pretend that the character of an atheist is really what’s in question.” Lo and behold, your criticism of my point about your commenting methods is – no surprise – to evade it once again… and then blame me for my lack of character by suggesting that I’m apparently just following atheist orders like a good little Nazi.
Yeah, you are the voice of corrective reason and intellectual integrity here, aren’t you, Sabio.
You are real piece of work.
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nah, i am the voice of mutual ignorance
>
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i really like John’s blog but feel no meed (sic) to do the atheist goosestep.
Yes, it is a good blog… one where all kinds of people can say all kinds of stuff that may or may not support the post. In fact, one doesn’t even have to follow a preset and policed tone. You think so highly of this, for example, that on your own blog anyone can… oh wait… you’ve banned me for my tone daring not to join in the Sabio Goosestep.
Now there’s an ‘au contrare’ for you. So which side of your mouth are speaking out of this time: your real voice or the smooth tone selling the fictitious Sabio version of intellectual integrity?
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Where on “Pathos”? Pathos is a huge amalgam of sites. Which site?
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Some blog run by a James McGrath. You know him? Now he’s being rude 😉
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Just saying if we’re going to talk about “embarassing geography” maybe we should get the facts straight – lest we get really geographically embarrassed ;-).
Myth or not your post is about alleged acts, so we should acknowledge that the alleged acts you refer to do not in fact only take place in that circle. I don’t suppose you’d like to publish a coorrection, maybe for the benefit of your first commenter above? They seem to be a person who likes correect facts 😉
Other than that the post looks great!! 😉
Best,
cct
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My first reaction was also, that the circle is too small. In that sense my first reaction would have been to agree with Chapman Common Tree on this. 🙂 People claim all sorts of miracles all around the Christendom today. None, that are verified in any way reliable, not even the ones that could be verified by very simple testing.
Then again, even if we include Babylon and the Mediterranean isles of the Biblical times, it is still an embarresingly small circle. On the other hand what a god alledgedly does or does not is a funny question altogether, though not the point of the post, if I understood it correctly.
For example, god alledgedly told he would help Nebuchadnezzar destroy Tyros to the ground and conquer Egypt, but did nothing of the sort. So, the Tyros event is an alledged act of god, that did not ever happen, so altough it is outside the circle, does it fall under the alledged acts of god, or not, since nothing nearly as “wondrous” really happened? The conquest of Egypt by Nebuchadnezzar fits perfectly within the circle, but it does not happen either, so is it an act of god, or what? However, even if Nebuchandezzar would have destroyed Tyros, and conqured Egypt, what justification could we possibly have to claim that this was an act of a god? Are we warranted to think it is a god acting because someone (alledgedly beforehand) claimed this god would act this way? Conquests happen all the time without any gods interfering and it is not very hard to make predictions of an ambitious general/king to succeed in his attempts to widen his rule, is it? It is a 50/50% bet. Did Ezekiel simply make a bad bet?
How many people throughout history have claimed that this very same god would destroy the world on a certain date, and that has not happened? If you only count hits, and never the misses, then such predictions may start to look miraculous. A claim and even any particular event itself are not very good evidence for a god to have interfered, are they? A common thing like a conquest is evidence of such common things happening and the profecy about it is evidence that it was not that hard to guess it would take place. Nothing more. A prophesy of an extraordinary event still is not really evidence about any gods or other unnatural entities as such, is it? How many deeds have so many gods been claimed to have done?
The deeds of gods are suspiciously closely tied to the cultural spheres where such gods are known at all. Quetzacoatl never ever did any miracles in the Middle-East and Jesus never did any miracles in Mexico, before the Conquistadores arrived and brought him with them, but after that the “miracles” attributed to Quetzacoatl before 1492 were slowly recognized as the miracles done by Jesus & Palls… The reason why Quetzacoatl never did miracles in the Middle east is obviously a direct result to the fact, that the Middle-East was never conquered by the Aztecs. Is it not?
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It is.
I didn’t count the prophets and their alleged visions, just the actual “Hello, I’m Yhwh” events, leaving only eastern Egypt and the Canaanite hills. Ur could be included, but then i’d have to draw another circle in western Iraq the size of a pixel.
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Ha ha! a pixel for Ur! 🙂 Ur!!! One of my favourite historical characters is Uru-Ka-Gina of Ur, who lived long before the alledged appearance of Yhwh and obviously had higher morals than this alledged god.
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Quite a town. Gilgamesh is also an Ur’ite: He who fired the bricks.
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Too much in here to deal with but perhaps just on Ezekiel 26. The prophecy is that “many nations” will come against tyre (v3) and not just neb.neb will take the mainland (v8) which he does. The Greeks (another nation) finish the job of the island. Hope that helps clear that up.
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So why include ISLAM in your charge if Allah is not allowed any presence in Saudi Arabia. Allah did not work any miracles there?
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Simple, because Allah (Yhwh) never appeared to Mo. Gabriel supposedly did.
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OK, so you are going to make me do it? Seriously?
Qur’an 15:80-84
Allah destroyed Babylonian city.
Qur’an 54:1-3
The Haddith also claims Allah split the moon while Muhammad was in Meccah as a sign to the Meccans.
Again, why even mention Islam in your title if you aren’t going to give him a geographical intervention area at all?
But it is interesting that miracles is not as big a part of Islam as it is Judaism and Christianity.
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That seems to be referring to the people of Petra, and it doesn’t seem to say the god of the Tankh did anything?
“The people of al-Hijr denied the Messengers. We brought them Our Signs but they turned away from them. They carved out houses from the mountains, feeling safe, but the Great Blast seized hold of them in the morning, so all that they earned was of no use to them.”
(Qur’an, 15:80-84)
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/historical_10.html
Regardless, we’re arguing over a god who never did anything, for the simple reason that it doesn’t exist.
That’s an interesting point, though, about the lack of miracles in Islam. Old Yhwh never could quite keep in character, could he 🙂
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“neb will take the mainland (v8) which he does”
Not according to Ezekiel 29:18, which states:
“Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon drove his army in a hard campaign against Tyre; every head was rubbed bare and every shoulder made raw. Yet he and his army got no reward from the campaign he led against Tyre.
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My point was not to divert the conversation wether or not the Ezekiel prophesies were true, but to point out, that the tiny speck on the map John posted was big enough, if we only count the actual alledged acts of a particular god, and discount the acts men have done alledgedly powered by this god and all the natural events that have been explained by this god. Because there is no way of measuring or estimating wether for example a general/king conquering, or losing, or a big flood drowning land was in any way a result of a god interfering. Same goes for all men alledgedly acting on behalf of a god and all natural events.
Even if all the Bible prophesies had come true (wich I claim has not happened), that would not tell us anything about the truth value of the Bible. Because after the fact recorded vague prophesies by superstitious, or simply religious men would either act in order to fullfill the prophesies, fit events to seem like the prophesies came to pass and naturally discard all the prophesies that did not come to pass – as they do today about the prophesies made about the end of the world, that we have had many during the last two millenia. Now, if any of those would have come to pass, and someone would have somehow survived the event, that particular prediction might have been raised from among all the failed ones as being inspired by a god, but even if it was, it would have been totally useless as a prediction hidden among so many other like it.
As with religions in general, since no particular religion collectively raises above the others in plausibility a religion is a useless method to convey to humans, that a god exists – and one would expect a god would understand that. Unless, that god is malevolent, it seems like extraordinarily unlikely suggestion to exist in this light.
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VERY nicely done, John!
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Cheers Alex. Low hanging fruit 🙂
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You are truly multi-talented.
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Hey, ya gotta start somewhere. This was a just test market to work out the kinks. And as you well know, sales skyrocketed with the addition of two new product lines and a boost in the advertising budget.
But all joking aside, its hard to deny that the three major franchises eventually captured a global market and the sign outside now reads: Billions and Billions duped. And that’s no laughing matter.
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Hindus, Buddhists and Shinto’ists might have a word to say about “global” market, but there’s no doubt those missionaries did a fine number on gullible Europeans and Arabs.
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Presenting military might, conquest, providing political and arms support to dissident usurpers and commercial embargo, were the most impressive conversion techniques for both Christianity and Islam. Even more than the genral gullibility (and ignorance) of the people. It was Crusaders who converted my people. Oh yes, people were propably very impressed by the new god after they had been first beaten in battle. But perhaps the creator of the universe is petty enough to take sides in wars to help out his supporters.
“In my experience, God sides with the army, that has the stronger artillery.” J. Stalin.
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What a great quote.
Yeah, the sword was mightier, and more effective than the book. In Australia the missionaries simply took the aboriginal children and placed them in white Christian family homes. An ugly chapter of our history.
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I bet they could not have done that, if the parents of the kids could have chosen, but missionaries often have had the military might behind their backs. They do have other means to appeal to the desperation, addictiveness, loneliness, superstitions and especially fear of the unknown, to get their message through, though.
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The parents didn’t have a say in the matter. Like I said, an ugly chapter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generations
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Apologies. My “boost in advertising budget” remark was a snide reference to the military campaigns used to bring the “good word” to the nations.
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it does take a certain vanity, arrogance and complete ignorance to think that one is the focus for some magical omnimax being.
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Well, it helped when you (the Jews, that is) were nothing but a cluster of angst-ridden hill villages surrounded by empires over which you had no control. A little comforting lie goes a long way. Unfortunately, it went a tad too far.
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Now that you mention it, it does seem odd Jesus never took a trip to the Grand Canyon or Niagara Falls.
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A Grand Canyon Eagle Walk, without the actual “walkway,” would have been far more impressive than a few steps on water!
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True…that might have made a believer out of me;)
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Actually, The Book of Mormon informs us that Jesus toured the Americas right after his resurrection.
“Jesus Christ did show himself unto the people of Nephi, as the multitude were gathered together in the land Bountiful, and did minister unto them; and on this wise did he show himself unto them. 3 Nephi 11
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What’s there not to love about Mormonism!
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Ah right, I had forgotten all about the Mormons!
Well, there you go, Jesus put Dora the Explorer to shame;)
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Posted recently and popping up in many places on the web a link to a spot on the moon—
It can be found on the Google Moon viewer at coordinates 22042’38.46N and 142034’44.52E. — UK’s Daily Mail
I tried but have no idea how to use Google Moon and can’t spare the time/bother to learn …
But if true, either the ‘beings’ there took God with them, are Godless, found God there, or are in desperate need of some Mormon missionaries …
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Looks a lot like a crater to me, but why would aliens sit on the moon anyway? They could perch themselves quite happily at a Lagrangian point, or even in high earth orbit and no one would be any the wiser.
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Either many folks have been taken in by a hoax or the crater has been air-brushed over and if you visited you got there post-edit …
The image posted was of a right-angle, each arm of which had seven equidistant lights (or reflective points). To my mind it looks very much like an artefact although I don’t go along with aliens or gods.
Dammit, I’ll copy and post in Forestall. If a hoax the UK’s tabloids have been taken in … I don’t peruse them but do follow interesting links (and enjoy the pretty damsels whilst there).
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I saw the lights, and the shape, but it’s probably just screwy pixels. Well, who knows? A visit from the neighbours would be great.
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If (and it’s a big ‘if’) it’s not a hoax then it begs explanation.
With the best will in the world although I know it is perfectly possible to throw a thousand heads (or tails) in a row it’s not all that likely. Likewise random arrangements of pixels coming up with that.
So I choose to run with an intelligence being involved, whether that be undisclosed landings by Earthies, or sneaky aliens, or earthbound hoaxers.
I’d say the probabilities weigh most heavily on hoaxers; substantially on earth governments trying to be secret, with just a remote chance of aliens. Very remote …
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And what about Wales? You sheister!
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Huh?
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Didn’t Yahweh perform in Wales? I’m sure he did. 😉
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Ah, you’re talking about the the Apocryphal Gospel of Rhys… Lovely hymns in that.
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There y’go boyo!
Oh, and the post is up to the usual standard btw.
And your number one fan, Clap ’em is on the ball as per usual…sigh.
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I was wondering if anyone would say, “Ur!”
Well, if you look really, really, really closely there is a circle around Ur… It’s smaller than a pixel, but I assure you its there. Have faith in me 🙂
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Always…St. John the Bat Pissed.
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If God has to have a chosen people, why not stick them in the most God-forsaken promised land He could find and make them constantly fight to remain there? I think his idea of entertainment is Sisyphus, so He couldn’t have chosen better. Besides, I checked with my good buddies over at the Creation Research Institute and discovered that that’s the exact location of the center of the universe. It only makes sense if you stop to think about it.
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My fear is if I stop to think about that i’ll never start again 😦
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I would argue that God chose this region because, well, he/she threw a dart at a map, and that is where it happened to land. Because what kind of a god wouldn’t enjoy throwing darts at a map to make critical decisions?
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… and, being god it always hits the bulls-eye, and, if the planet just happened to be facing the right way at the precise moment the dart left its hands then… Viola! Chosen people all sorted!
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Pingback: Geographical Arrogance
Reblogged this on hitchens67 Atheism WOW!! Campaign.
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Jeepers, that’s why they call it “The Holy Land”. It’s like how pigs are called pigs because they are dirty animals.
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The northern hairy-nosed wombat is dirtier but going to all the bother of actually saying “you’re a filthy northern hairy-nosed wombat” doesn’t quite roll as easily off the tongue.
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Give “Eff’n wombat” a try. 🙂
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Priceless.
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🙂
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Reblogged this on Jericho Brisance and commented:
Well, when you put it that way, yes.
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God had to be somewhere specific, and that tiny area was the most fertile for belief. Had he gone to Australia, his message wouldn’t have left that part of the world and had he gone further into Asia, those guys wouldn’t have cared.
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Luck Australia! Aboriginal Dreaming is far more beautiful than the Judaic tale
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I once read a novel about a dreaming and loved it. Those people can count in dreams… oh sorry, you people can dream
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🙂
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This is for you John… 🙂
http://wp.me/p1T8nQ-wN
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I saw this graphic on someone else’s post last week on my reader (triangleman?) and thought it was very clever. Should have know it was you. Creeping over, I agree with all the chat above that you should widen it to include all the other action points mentioned. Because it’s still an absurdly tiny area for any alleged creator of all things to hang around in. When he looked at all his creation and decided Noah was the only one worth keeping, do Christians really feel confident he thoroughly checked for one half-decent person in South America or Australia, or Japan or China? All those millions of irrelevant people worth only a good smite. It’s such a loving religion.
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Yes, Sabio changed the meme. I don’t think it was necessary, but who am i to judge. The only other action point was Ur, and I’ve already inserted the circle. It’s unfortunately smaller than a pixel so you can’t actually see it, but believe me, its there.
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Well, it’s perfect now. Bet you’re seething with a smile. 🙂
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You know smiles developed as a visual warning system to other animals to back off? 🙂
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Oooh, you made that look really rather sinister. I’m skulking off ….
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Hehehe. Hey, did you see my Jewish series? It unraveled while you were on sabbatical. “Of course what you say is true…” is the important one.
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I did! I caught up on all your posts first because you’re my favourite blogger. 🙂 So I just went back to look at it again and it’s so long and there are so many comments, I’m going to have to schedule into next week for a serious re-read. I think I’m going to go on another blog break soon – I seriously can’t keep up the pace and get far too irritated with ‘wrong’ opinions. It’s not good for the health!
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Yes, how dare people have opposing opinions! The nerve of some mollusks, it beggars belief. Is it beggars or buggers belief? Buggers certainly sounds better and has more immediacy to it. It buggers belief! Yes, it must be that, its settled, and I don’t want to hear any contradictory opinions on the matter.
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I found your utterly fascinating and even exciting blog via (no surprise) the Pink Agendist. We’ll get to know one another, but I’m not an Atheist … I’m nominally an Episcopalian, but I don’t believe in any God … just good works, which the church does here in New York. Anyway, you’ve got my interest … for sure !
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Great! Pink Agendist is a fine fellow, and i’ll certainly stand side by side with you on doing good works.
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They’re the best …
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Chuck geography – lets talk art. (Unless Scientology lays claim to Temple Mount, then I’ll talk geography again) I’m rather fond of the earliest depictions of Jesus.The bible never said what he looked like – pagans were partial to female Gods so Jesus was given “man boobs”, rounded hips and a childish face – in fact, Jesus was generally drawn as a happy go lucky, pretty little Apollo wannabe. Until the middle ages dictated a tortured, angst ridden sufferer would garner obedience. Unfortunate in hind-sight geography got in the way – Jesus could have spent a thousand years rocking a pygmy head hunter look. Sigh.
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It’s one of those oddities, isn’t it, that this allegedly wonderful teacher wandered around with thousands waiting on his words, yet no one ever drew a picture of him, let alone left a physical description, or even a piece of graffiti…. Mmmm
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Perhaps they never got a good look – too much dust.
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Granted, ten thousand sandals do kick up a lot of dust 🙂
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There is an exellent description of this dust and other such problems by the Italian playwrite and thespian Dario Fo, in his Mistero Buffo, where he tells the stories (among other stories) of the wedding at Canaan and reanimation of Lazarus as seen by drunken bystanders. And as the stories are not described by the fan boys of Jesus, but by some other people, the Vatican called the story: “the most blasmephous story in history of television”. And we do know how different the descriptions of outsiders and fans tend to be… It is funny, and I recommend it to everybody, but especially to any Christians, if they are not too affraid their “loving” god might exclude them from the blisfull afterlife for peeping on the other side of faith… And art.
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I find it interesting that no where in such texts do they mention the thousands of tons of copper that were mined by the advanced culture that occupied north America long before Europeans colonized bringing the “modern” gods along with them. Those silly bastards think their culture was the first, just the most recent, and probably not as progressive.
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I’ve heard of this before, but must admit i never looked into it. Where is all that copper now?
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According to Phillip Cowpens in his book The Lost Civilization Enigma most of it was shuttled back to old Europe (in about 6000 BCE) to be combined with European tin for Bronze production.
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…And I auto corrected the duck out of his name. Coppens, Phillip Coppens.
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6,000 BCE! Damn, if that can be shown to be true it’s going to require a lot of rewriting of the history books. Wouldn’t be the first time, and I’m sure it won’t be the last.
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I just saw that. 2,600 BCE not 6,000. Not sure how I messed that up.
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That’s still impressively old; older than the Egyptian Middle Kingdom. Oh to have a time machine!
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I know, right? I am working on a lengthy series about alternative history. It is turning into a serious undertaking.
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I’ve always been fond of Mu. It’s outlandish, but James Churchward did do an awful lot of work tracing linguistics back to this “lost” continent. His book was a great read.
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I am reading churchward as we speak. I hope that through some sort of leap in logic I can connect this lost land to that other more well known one.
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There are certainly lots of particulars like that to take into consideration. That may be a great level to carry up. I provide the thoughts above as general inspiration but clearly there are questions like the one you convey up the place the most important factor will be working in honest good faith. I don?t know if best practices have emerged around things like that, but I’m certain that your job is clearly recognized as a fair game. Each boys and girls really feel the impression of just a second’s pleasure, for the rest of their lives.
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