Hey John, “Leroy” is a great sample, I mean example, of the type of thinking that would blow the top off of Sonny’s robotic head. Poor Roy, he “believes” the truth is not just subjective, but it is a secret, too. Reason # 1,487,373,282 why I would not feel safe.
None of us would be safe, including the Christians. The robot would make more like it and program these too and it would be the end of EVERYTHING. Religion ultimately destroys.
“So, the question before you, Roy, is this: Did Jesus mean what he said on the Mount, there in front of the hoards eagerly listening, or did he blunder? If he was going to say Mosaic Law no-longer applied then that would be the place and time to say it, wouldn’t you agree. What did he say, Roy…?
YES< YESThe Law Applies>The Law Applies>BUT BUT BUT
Jesus said, ” Let them among you who is without sin cast the first stone.”
There is one major problem with you question John. There are 71 Bible verses stating there is only one Judge and Executioner – God.
So, it is disingenuous for a man to hypothetically invent a robotic Judge and Executioner that is not qualified to hold said position.
Additionally, there are several reasons the Old Testament covenantal system was so harsh. I’m sure you are very aware of these reasons but ignore them to placate your followers.
The new covenant (New Testament) was prophesied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.” It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.
Of particular importance to your topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, “When He said, ‘A new covenant,’ He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.” The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.
The New Testament covenantal system says that we are to “be at peace with one another,” (Mark 9:50) and “with all men,” (Rom. 12:18). Rom. 14:19 says, “pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another.” After all, “God has called us to peace,” (1 Cor. 7:15).
However, this does not mean that we are to approve of such sins as homosexuality, adultery, lying, and stealing. We are to not participate in the sins of the world. Instead, we are to avoid them. We are not to be violent to anyone since the old theonomic, covenantal system has been done away with (Heb. 8:13). Instead, we are to be kind to them (2 Tim. 2:24-25) and show them love (1 Cor. 16:14, 2 Cor. 5:14). But the moral condemnation of immorality still stands–as is clearly taught in 1 Cor. 6:9-10 and Rom. 1:26-28.
While some may be ignorant to the content of Scripture and the teachings of Christ, they are by no means deprived of any knowledge of what is right and wrong, nor are they deprived of the knowledge of God’s existence. You, with your vast knowledge of Scripture, seem to be the ultimate Deceiver. You know full-well the omissions of Truth you leave out and full-well the deception and lies you weave into every anti-Biblical post.
Romans 1:20 tells us, “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” In reality, it is not that some people have not heard about Christ. Rather, the problem is that they have rejected what they have heard and what is readily seen in nature. Deuteronomy 4:29 proclaims, “But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.” This verse teaches an important principle: everyone who truly seeks after Truth will find it. If a person sincerely desires to know the true God, God will make Himself known.
”There are 71 Bible verses stating there is only one Judge and Executioner – God.
So, it is disingenuous for a man to hypothetically invent a robotic Judge and Executioner that is not qualified to hold said position.”
Well, this is not exactly true. In many places we have clear instructions that the people (ordinary people) should do the judging and the killing… as in Deut. 22:24:
“you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death–the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.”
As previously noted by Ken, we even have the methods people (ordinary people) are to use for the killing:
Decapitation with the sword (Ex. 21:20; Lev. 26:25)
Strangulation (Lev. 20:10)
Death by burning with fire (Lev. 20:14)
Death by stoning (Deut. 22:24)
“The new covenant (New Testament) was prophesied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.” It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.”
Roy, this is Paul, not Jesus. As stated above, if you want to posit this as being valid then you must also accept the following to be true:
So what you’re saying here is that in Jesus’ entire life, including his three-year ministry in which he had an awful lot to say about all sorts of things, including his specific thoughts on Mosaic Law, he simply forgot to mention that none of that actually still applied. Simply slipped his mind. He made a boo-boo, a blunder. In fact, according to you, he accidently said the exact opposite of what was actually on his mind. Silly, foolish, stupid nincompoop. A veritable butter-fingers, the hopeless fool.
Ooops!
So, to make up for this rather embarrassing brain fart, some thirty years after his death he privately visits a man, Saul, to let him know that he blundered and that people really shouldn’t murder people suspected of, say, sorcery, or kill, for example, homosexuals. Slavery, though, was still permitted, and encouraged.
You see, Roy, that’s hardly convincing, is it? I mean, are you seriously suggesting Jesus simply forgot to mention the most important theological point pertaining to a new religion?
Of course, if you can show me where Jesus says you’re free of Mosaic Law (chapter and verse) then you might have a point.
Leroy…one other story to clarify the ridiculousness of religion:
“A little boy was sitting on a street corner holding a bottle of liquid over his head, gazing at the suns rays cascading through the fluid.
A preacher passing by sees the little boy and stops, and asks, “Son, what are you doing?”
“I’m looking at the most powerful liquid in the world…turpentine” the little boy responded with pride.
The preacher, chuckling, responded, “Son, turpentine isn’t the most powerful liquid in the world–holy water is! If you rub holy water on a pregnant woman’s stomach she will pass a baby boy!”
“That’s nothing. If you rub turpentine on a cat’s ass it’ll pass a motorcycle”
I’ll address each of your two points John, from last to first…
The New Covenant – I believe the basis’s for this is clearly established at the Last Supper where we read, “And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.” (Luke 22)
Christians believe that Jesus is the mediator of the New Covenant, and that the Blood of Christ shed at his crucifixion is the required blood of the New Covenant. As with all covenants between God and man described in the Bible, the New Covenant is considered “a bond in blood sovereignly administered by God.” The New Covenant is the Law of Christ as spoken, mainly in His Sermon on the Mount, but also through His teachings and life example throughout the NT..
In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus tells us how to live and treat others. (Matthew 5) Some Christian teachings refer to the first 10 commands given by Jesus as the Works of Mercy, which have corporal and spiritual components, these verses resonate with the theme of the Beatitude for mercy. These teachings emphasize that these acts of mercy provide both temporal and spiritual benefits.
***
The focus you have for the Old Testament Covenant is not valid after the New Covenant was established through Christ’s shed blood. After saying that, I’ll give a defense for God’s Law, even though He doesn’t need it.
It must be remembered that the culture of the ancient Israelite’s and their surrounding nations was one of many different vile sins, including human sacrifice of the first born. God touched down in time first through Moses to reveal his laws, some of which if we view a-historically, as cruel, but at the time the 613 O/T laws were a big change philosophically from the surrounding cultures. Finally with the coming of God’s word made flesh the fullness of the message is revealed. Christ came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it, but when Christ was confronted with the woman caught in adultery he didn’t shout “STONE HER” (as God had commanded adulterers be treated) instead he raised the ethical bar higher, as it were, by saying “Let he who is without sin among you be first to cast the stone”.
Matthew 19:9 “I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.” Wouldn’t this cause the man to be put to death?
Mark 10:11 “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her.” Again, wouldn’t he then be put to death since he would have committed adultery?
Mark 10:12 “And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.” Same question I ask about the women who are considered have committed adultery. Wouldn’t they be put to death also?
Luke 16:18 “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.”
My question here is: Would an adulterer in the New Testament be put to death? No.
Sorry Roy, but that doesn’t say anything about freeing you from Mosaic Law. Now, don’t forget, this is the most important theological point, there shouldn’t be any ambiguity. And, you know what, there isn’t any ambiguity. Jesus is quite clear about his opinion on Mosaic Law.
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. “Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.…
If he was going to overthrow it, he would have said so in much the same way he said here that he wasn’t. Here is a Christian theologian confirming just this point:
”What Christians most often forget is how to read the whole Bible as the complete Word of God. For some, there is a misunderstanding that the Old Testament no longer applies to Christians. That would be a mistaken understanding because Jesus came to fulfill the “Law and the Prophets” (the Old Testament), but not to change a “jot or tittle” of it. Jesus did change some of the incorrect ways that the Jews were practicing the Law, but did not change the Law itself.”
A boy is selling fish on a corner. To get his customers’ attention, he is yelling, “Dam fish for sale! Get your dam fish here!” A pastor hears this and asks, “Why are you calling them ‘dam fish.'” The boy responds, “Because I caught these fish at the local dam.” The pastor buys a couple fish, takes them home to his wife, and asks her to cook the dam fish. The wife responds surprised, “I didn’t know it was acceptable for a preacher to speak that way.” He explains to her why they are dam fish. Later at the dinner table, he asks his son to pass the dam fish. He responds, “That’s the spirit, Dad! Now pass the fucking potatoes!”
Now that made me laugh!
This next one might be even more funny…
Josey wasn’t the best pupil at Sunday school. She often fell asleep and one day while she was sleeping, the teacher asked her a question. “Who is the creator of the universe?” Joe was sitting next to Josey and decided to poke her with a pin to wake her up. Josey jumped and yelled, “God almighty!” The teacher congratulated her. A little later the teacher asked her another question, “Tell me who is our lord and savior?” Joe poked Josey again and she yelled out, “Jesus Christ!” The teacher congratulated her again. Later on the teacher asked, “What did Eve say to Adam after their 26th child?” Joe poked Josey again and she shouted, “If you stick that thing in me again, I’ll snap it in half and stick it up your ass!”
The Bible is a sealed book to every man, learned or unlearned, till he begins to study it with a simple heart and a teachable spirit, that he may then learn the truth and the will of God. To worship God, is to approach him. And if the heart be full of his love and fear, out of the abundance of it the mouth will speak; but there are many whose religion is lip-labour only. When they pretend to be speaking to God, they are thinking of a thousand foolish things. They worship the God of Israel according to their own devices. Numbers are only formal in worship. And their religion is only to comply with custom, and to serve their own interest. But the wanderings of mind, and defects in devotion, which are the believer’s burden, are very different from the withdrawing of the heart from God, so severely blamed. And those who make religion no more than a pretense, to serve a turn, deceive themselves. And as those that quarrel with God, so those that think to conceal themselves from him, in effect charge him with folly. But all their perverse conduct shall be entirely done away. It will be burn and consumed.
Thanks, but I really didn’t need a sermon. I just wanted to point out to you that your comment: Would an adulterer in the New Testament be put to death? No. is not accurate if what I wrote was true — which you agreed that it was.
Thus …
And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.. Leviticus 20:10 (ASV)
Translating of Scripture has been ongoing since 300 B.C.E. when tradition tell us 72 Jewish scholars were ordered by Egyptian ruler Ptolemy II to provide a Greek translation of the Old Testament for Alexandrian Jews who gradually had lost touch with the Hebrew language. Thus the Septuagint Greek Old Testament emerged. The Septuagint is the first attempt to translate the Hebrew Old Testament into another language, and is based on Hebrew manuscripts 1,000 years older than the Hebrew of the Masoretic text on which our Bibles are based.
More than 1,700 ancient manuscripts of the Hebrew Scriptures exist today, but none of them are originals. Until over 60 years ago, the oldest existing Hebrew manuscript was the Masoretic, prepared by Jews known as Masoretes in the 5th and 6th centuries of our common era. With the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947, much older Hebrew documents—dating from 100 B.C.E to 100 C.E.—became available. The Scrolls include parts or all of the Old Testament books but Esther.
Said to be the closest thing to a standard Bible among evangelicals is the New International Version. A team of 115 scholars spent seven years producing this contemporary language Bible in 1978. Each book was assigned to a team of scholars, who passed their work on to an intermediate committee who checked it with the Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek. Then a general editorial committee double-checked the work. Still another committee made any needed changes.
The primary concern was for accuracy, clarity, and natural English style. For the Old Testament they used the Masoretic Text, Biblia Hebraica,, Samaritan Pentateuch, Septuagint, Vulgate, Syriac, Peshitta, Targums, and Jerome’s Juxta Hebraica, for the Psalms, as well as consulted the Dead Sea Scrolls. Numerous Greek texts were used for the New Testament.
If you want to read Scripture online try https://www.biblegateway.com Easy to read Chapters and verses in different versions.
The NIV employs a dynamic equivalence form of translating in a number of passages. This method calls for using a word or phrase that makes the impact that the original had on its first readers, rather than using a simple grammatical or lexical equivalent. In English style it is similar to the Revised Standard Version.
The study version employs footnotes. Drawbacks are that it, as most, is not faithful to the sacred Names, and the New Testament reflects popular and sometimes erroneous dogma.
I didn’t give you a Sermon Nan. Just a simple explanation.
You have to realize Christ is God is the Holy Spirit. God is a tri-being.
“Before the world began, the Word was there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was there with God in the beginning. Everything was made through him, and nothing was made without him.” John 1:1-3
‘Jesus’ always existed. He is God in the flesh, just one aspect of what is the creator. There are simple-to-understand parables Jesus used to explain His relationship to the three aspects of God.
JZ likes to see the events unfolding as “God changing His mind”. Where in reality it’s a road trip. He takes rights and lefts and sometimes goes straight. There is a final destination and to get there one has to make direction changes. It’s His plan, His design, and we are just along for the ride. JZ, and many others like yourself, see this changing as a contradiction where it really isn’t.
I would add Nan that many souls have been damaged. CRUSHED. And they readily blame God. ” How could God allow this to happen to me is a common question.
But He stands ready to give you comfort and healing. ASK HIM and accept what is yours. You are His creation and nothing is beyond His power. He will heal you and love you and wipe every tear away. All you have to do is ACT.
Leroy, there are few things I like less than being preached to. If you don’t think that is what you are doing I suggest you ask the owner of this blog. Or hell! Ask any one of the various participants of his blog. There are ways to comment withour quoting scripture,. For example, your own words. Wow! How original.
The owner seems to have been silenced, and the others may be scared to confront.
I’m not preaching to you. Perhaps something inside you is really hearing my words and is tormented by them. There is an alternative to your pain, you do not have to hold on to it forever.
The post, and entire blog content for that matter, is to hate God and so label Christians stupid. So, using Truth (Scripture), one blood-bought Christian makes a stand. Scripture will pierce hearts and lay the guilty in shame.
Been there done that. “Scripture” is nothing more than a bunch of words put down by men who suffered from delusions that an invisible supernatural entity existed somewhere “out there.” If you wish to take it seriously, that’s your perogative. I don’t.
You asked a very simple question, “…show me where Jesus says you’re free of Mosaic Law”.
Jesus freed us by shedding his blood for us. We are all dead in sin under the Old Covenant. God knows this. We, as hard as we try, error. The solution for His beloved. Make a way to bring mine to me. This, in His own words, is the New (blood) Covenant as plainly taught and spoken by the Lord Himself.
You know very well since Jesus entered the scene there is not punishment like there was under the OT Covenant, It STOPPED. Jesus said, ” Let them among you who is without sin cast the first stone.”
You love to quote Scripture in a twisted and false way. Yes, He did not come to abolish the Law. It is still a sin to commit adultery, ALL THE LAW REMAINS, but the Christian now is to extol mercy as Jesus commanded. We are to meter out the same we expect God to meter to us. “forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us” Now, in this age, GOD is the Judge, not us. Now, God is the executioner, not us. God sent His Word to teach and be a living sacrifice, ” Your love must be real. Hate what is evil. Do only what is good. Love each other in a way that makes you feel close like brothers and sisters. And give each other more honor than you give yourself.”
There is virtually zero ambiguity. Your supposed “ambiguity” is an invention you designed. You hide behind a false and see-thru curtain people like me clearly ascertain. You only placate an audience of hurt and shattered souls who blame God for their pain. People like Nan who states, “Been there done that. “Scripture” is nothing more than a bunch of words put down by men who suffered from delusions”.
She obviously has been hurt and has no idea that God Almighty can pull all that crap right out of her. She doesn’t have to live with it everyday. It breaks my heart that people let themselves suffer day-after-day with emotional pain. He can heal you and He is waiting, just ask with all your heart.
***
We are in different time zones John…your two hours ahead and were probably asleep. My bad.
You got me? Really? Um, I can’t see where you’ve quoted Jesus contradicting what he so clearly states in Matthew. That’s unambiguous. His thoughts on Mosaic Law (named) are quite clear…. as the theologian I linked to says.
Leroy, people (like you) that write things like this …
“She obviously has been hurt and has no idea that God Almighty can pull all that crap right out of her. She doesn’t have to live with it everyday. It breaks my heart that people let themselves suffer day-after-day with emotional pain. He can heal you and He is waiting, just ask with all your heart.”
… make me see red! You don’t know me. You don’t know my history. You don’t have ANY idea of my experiences with “God.” So DON’T sit in judgment of me and give me a bunch of horse shit about how “God” is going to do such wonders with poor lil’ me and my awful terrible “emotional pain.”
Truth be known, I feel sorry for YOU that you have been so taken in by the nonsense that Christianity teaches. If you took time to study the history of how it all got started (outside of your “holy book” and what you hear from the pulpit), you might learn a thing or two. I know I did … and I put it all down in a book (which, BTW, is rated 5 stars on Amazon),
And DON’T think my anger comes from the fact that you’ve reached me at some deep emotional level because God …
It’s because you inserted yourself into my life when you have NO right to do so.
(Sorry John. Didn’t mean to get carried away, but I think you understand where I’m coming from.)
Jesus sums up you, and all like you, when He said, “To you (the apostles) it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:
“‘“You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.”
For this people’s heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.’
But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.””
“A great cause of confusion today concerns the place of the Mosaic law in the New Testament believer’s life … There are Christian teachers of repute who consider the Mosaic law to be the present-day rule of life for the Christian. A view not infrequently found among earnest, orthodox believers is that although we are not saved by the law, once we have been justified by faith, then the Mosaic law becomes our rule of life. ”
The key word here is, of course, Confusion, and for very good reason. Jesus said one thing (the law stands until heaven and earth pass away), yet Paul said another. You want to quote a passing reference to some “new covenant,” but then you have to admit (if I grant you the “interpretation” you’re reading into it, which I’m not) that Jesus is here contradicting his most important sermon. Confusion. Why would Jesus contradict himself? And he was going back on what he said on the Mount, then why not be a tad more clear about it? Confusion. Confusion. Confusion.
Of course, you’re certainly free to point to Paul to make your point. That’s fine. However, as I’ve pointed out to you, to do so is to admit that Jesus blundered terribly, saying the exact opposite of what you, Roy, are trying to say he meant. And of course, many an apologist then divides ceremonial law from moral law, which is really nothing but a desperate theological-two-step.
Roy, I showed you a theologian who flatly disagrees with you. Now, you’re not a theologian, so I think I’ll take his reading of scripture to be more authoritative than your amateur opinion.
No apologies are needed to John, and certainly not to me Nan. You, my dear, are not alone. There are millions just like you and their history all starts from point A, abuse.
I speak to John, only. Others butt into He and I’s conversations and I respond in kind. I meet each at their level. if you want jokes I got jokes. I see it and I feel it. It’s been that way for over two years with John and me and how the hell I miss Christos, the one-eyed guy, and Prayson. Me, Nathan and the Monkey, you are not the first and I have an insight to see fake shit deflectant always.
Again, I speak to John and his bull-shit. Inject yourself and you too will get the wrath of God telling you to suck it up and come home and be healed, or die forever.
Your anger is not really directed at me now, is it?
And furiously masturbating in his mind thinking he’s gotten you served JZ.
Seriously.
Dude “There are millions just like you and their history all starts from point A, abuse.”
This is one of those extremely condescending pile of shit I’ve seen from self-righteous folks who need to think that people who disagree with them are “broken” just to make their own puny ego feel good.
Seriously fuck you Leroy.
(or are you a satire? TBH I’m not sure since your name is Leroy and you have like some crazy mutton chops as though it is 1800s, go google Leroy Jenkins)
Come on John. You will never honestly and truthfully use the Bible against itself. You really can’t be that stupid. Then again, I may be wrong about you….
You take a few lines from an article on bible.com out of context to prove your point. Reading further in the article I see, ” For the law of the life-giving Spirit in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death (law of Moses). For God achieved (the New Covenant of the blood of Christ) what the law (Law of Moses Old Covenant) could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the righteous requirement of the law (the Law of Moses) may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
That is the authors “opinion,” which he/she admits in the opening passage contradicts other Christian teachers of “repute”…. Hence confusion. And again, I showed you a theologian’s reading that flatly says you’re wrong. Why should I disregard that in favour of your amateur opinion?
So, the question before you, Roy, is this: Did Jesus mean what he said on the Mount, there in front of the hoards eagerly listening, or did he blunder? If he was going to say Mosaic Law no-longer applied then that would be the place and time to say it, wouldn’t you agree. What did he say, Roy…?
Not typing in the nude but I do have my hand in my pants and I am holding it.
Fuck you too loser. Sorry about your bad luck Powell.
The name Leroy is a French baby name. In French the meaning of the name Leroy is: The King. My middle name is William and Grandma called me Willy till the day she died.
I’m a Junior, very white, well gray now, and American, from German ancestry. I fly the American flag, served in the US army, and am patriotic to a fault. Fuck with me, fuck with my Country, Fuck with my God, and you fuck with death. My Grandmother came from Germany and was fluent in German. My Uncles were named Charles, Melvin and Harry and they where some tough son-of-bitches.
So, I copy and pasted this again, under the right :reply: link. lets hope this works….
Are you serious? Dabble bubble dang dang,
“So, the question before you, Roy, is this: Did Jesus mean what he said on the Mount, there in front of the hoards eagerly listening, or did he blunder? If he was going to say Mosaic Law no-longer applied then that would be the place and time to say it, wouldn’t you agree. What did he say, Roy…?
YESThe Law Applies>BUT BUT BUT
Jesus said, ” Let them among you who is without sin cast the first stone.”
I thought I’d make one last replay to this post. It’s too tedious to scroll up the the reply link. I’ll catch you guys in the next post, no doubt it will be more false and hate-speech BS.
What I learned…Nan doesn’t liked to be preached to and she does not like Scripture. God’s word convicts and no one wants to be convicted and killed… Powell served in the US Military but has no no clue what we fight for is FREEDOM. We are a Nation of immigrants and most came to escape religious persecution. We came to be free to worship as we choose to worship and we fight for freedom. Freedom for ALL faiths…John is wrong always. He uses the Bible (God’s inspired Word) against itself, always an utter failure. It’s NEVER worked and never will. And Luke has jokes, lame but it inspired me to one-up, and really, life is joy and we need to laugh, Thanks Luke!
***
I sold Walmart (WMT) today, for a nice 14.67% profit (bought it at $57.77 per share and sold it at $66.48). I used the proceeds to but CSCO and MO, both solid Company’s currently rated very bullish by many key analysts. Buy Dividend Champions and sell high and buy low, and always Dividend Champs and Kings. I love Coca-Cola (KO) and have 1230 shares. They raised the dividend this year another 2 cents, to $00.35. 54 years in a row Coke has raised it’s dividend.
Many Christians haven’t a clue what the 613 laws are or where to find them. I’ve gotten several to read them. Afterwards some realize how ridiculous some parts of the Bible really are.
They don’t like it when you point out they’re not following the 10 commandments that were used to make a covenant, but the earlier set that were broken.
They wouldn’t be above slavery or rape.. so “no” initially. But I can’t help feel they would be conflicted about enforcing a lot of rules.. which of the contradictory commandments would take precedence, for example?
Bugger the commandments. Our robot would enforce laws like Deuteronomy 22:28-29, where a rape victim would be forced to marry her rapist. Our robot would murder anyone suspected of sorcery Exodus 22:17, murder all homosexuals Leviticus 20:13, murder a child who hit his/her father Exodus 21:15, murder a child who cursed their parents Leviticus 20:9, murder unfaithful partners Leviticus 20:10, murder all followers of other religions Exodus 22:19/2 Chronicles 15:12-13/Deuteronomy 13:7-12, murder anyone working on the Sabbath Exodus 31:12-15, and murder anyone who didn’t listen to a priest Deuteronomy 17:12…. and that’s just a short list.
That’s what I mean. All commandments or instructions. The robot would have to know when the 10 didn’t count because of Ex 22:17 or when Ex 22:17 didn’t count because of the 10 etc. I’m pretty sure such a robot would just break. Terrifying yes, but inherently flawed because the Bible is erroneous as hell (expression intended)
Coding is a bit of a hobby of mine. It would be fairly time consuming but interesting to write a program that processed a typed sin and told you what the Bible told to do and the chain of errors preceding from it
Using the prescribed Christian perspective, they would likely say: “C’mon, John…be real. Jesus changed all of that rubbish about rape, sodomy, incest, genocide, diets…even the day we worship! That’s the OLD testament! That’s not Yahweh, Yahweh is “love.” Yahweh simplified the Law. The new law is clear: Love God and love each other including your enemies!”
And…that “change” presents a new conflict with Yahweh’s rules…laws for robots like Sonny.
Sadly, Sonny the Robot would come closer to reflecting those traits than the average, everyday spirit-possessed Christians…at least from my experience. Sonny would try…but then computation errors would surface.
Sonny the robot would share the same fate as we mortals. Perfection won’t last–even for a robot. Sonny would eventually short-out and blow-up when trying to reconcile his perfect creator and Yahweh’s new rules of engagement-love–with the “reality” Yahweh somehow also intentionally and purposefully created a perfectly capable tempter, a hell and a preset programming “error”…”sin.”
“This does not compute” says Sonny.
Sonny will grow confused. Despondent. Sonny will….doubt.
The machinery of “guilt” would eat up all the bandwidth in Sonny. Rationale computing would be impossible.
Poor Sonny, the perfect robot will sin…short fuse…and then…
Go to Gehenna for robots…the scrap heap…and be melted down to reincarnate as a toaster.
Ah, but Jesus never said a word about freeing people from Mosaic Law. In fact, he said quite the opposite, and a Christian theologian agrees:
”What Christians most often forget is how to read the whole Bible as the complete Word of God. For some, there is a misunderstanding that the Old Testament no longer applies to Christians. That would be a mistaken understanding because Jesus came to fulfill the “Law and the Prophets” (the Old Testament), but not to change a “jot or tittle” of it. Jesus did change some of the incorrect ways that the Jews were practicing the Law, but did not change the Law itself.”
“Hey, JZ, I offered a “fictional” response…and you expect me to remain factual, even using the Bible to support fiction? You can’t understand that, can you? If you don’t believe, you can’t perceive! That’s what Paul said. Willful ignorance…the gift of disbelieving reality is not upon you, in you or in your mailbox. John, Jesus came to fulfill the Law! Kind of like winning the lottery. And Jesus did fulfill what his father and his spirit–all three–knew and perfectly intended! Yahweh crucified himself–all part of the overall perfect plan you perfectly fail to perceive the beauty of the blood and murder Yahweh in the flesh, real time. C’mon, John, this is eternity! (Growl…)”
285. That the Court shall pass sentence of death by decapitation with the sword (Ex. 21:20; Lev. 26:25) (affirmative).
286. That the Court shall pass sentence of death by strangulation (Lev. 20:10) (affirmative).
287. That the Court shall pass sentence of death by burning with fire (Lev. 20:14) (affirmative).
289. That the Court shall pass sentence of death by stoning (Deut. 22:24) (affirmative).
“Just a tasty little slice if ISIS in the good ol’ US of A.” Yes indeed. Watching 7th century laws being enforced (and condoned by liberals) in the 21st century is very disconcerting.
Sacrificed, or just murdered for transgressions? On the bright side, your robot does have options as to how the child shall be killed: decapitation, strangulation, stoning, and everyone’s favourite, burning.
Well, children should live with the threat of death hanging over their heads. I mean, that’s what the Christian Reconstructionist Gary North preaches:
“When people [children] curse their parents, it unquestionably is a capital crime. The son or daughter is under the lawful jurisdiction of the family. The integrity of the family must be maintained by the threat of death.”
And, another thing … ;o) Some apologist is likely to claim that the NT superseded the OT and those “old rules” no longer apply. To them I respond “You mean all of those things Yahweh said in the Bible were wrong? That they were just a mistake? And all of the modern Evangelical Christians whining on and on about the Ten Commandments don’t realize that they are mistaken, that … etc.”
An apologist can try, but they will fail. Jesus said nothing of the like. Paul did, sort of, but not Jesus… So, what said apologist is essentially saying is that in Jesus’ entire life, including his three-year ministry in which he had an awful lot to say about all sorts of things, including his specific thoughts on Mosaic Law, he simply forgot to mention that none of that actually still applied. Simply slipped his mind. He made a boo-boo, a blunder. In fact, according to said apologist, he accidently said the exact opposite of what was actually on his mind. Silly, foolish, stupid nincompoop. A veritable butter-fingers, the hopeless fool.
Ooops!
So, to make up for this rather embarrassing brain fart, some thirty years after his death he privately visits a man, Saul, to let him know that he blundered and that people really shouldn’t murder people suspected of, say, sorcery, or kill, for example, homosexuals. Slavery, though, was still permitted, and encouraged.
That was a huge reason for my deconversion. I was taught God doesn’t change. So God is the god of the OT, and he is a horrible person! I’ve tried to explain this to some family members, but they don’t see it. Then they will post a verse from proverbs or psalms… So I would post one from the OT… Lol.. I had to stop because I think my family was going to start hating me.
Pigs might fly first on either count. Not in my lifetime. Hopefully by the time robots are commonplace in the home this whole stupid religion thing will have died a most deserved death.
Aren’t robots kind of against the notion of Christian values anyway?
For a robot spouting religious doctrine to exist would imply major political control on behalf of the religious party in question. The Jihadists wouldn’t employ robots because they like killing themselves too much, and any Christian robot would have had to have been developed according to corrupt pseudo-capitalist-religioso principles. Idolatry and all that (spit).
Robots would be very temperamental, much like our computers these days – not much has changed there in the last 35 years.
You’d have your Amazon and Google robots, your McCrapple (merging of Microsoft and Apple), your Sony Robot and possibly a few other pretenders.
Hackers would be corrupting their software constantly.
As long as science holds the reigns of credibility, religion will not stand a chance of ever exacting that kind of power again.
Ah, well there’d be no Pat Robertson as our robot would have murdered him for false prophecy.
“If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3)
That was truly amazing. He simply kept repeating a memorized speech about Obama no matter what he was asked. Literally kept saying the exact words over and over. I’ll find the link for you. It’s hilarious.
I was just reading a comment on the Slate website. They observed that part of the problem is that Rubio appears not to be a self learning, self improving Robot. They obviously need to tweak the AI a bit still.
The article went on to provide some helpful advice to his campaign team:
Here are a few tried-and-true options the campaign may wish to employ before hitting the panic button:
1.Turn the Marco Rubio off and then back on again.
2.Take Marco Rubio’s cartridge out and blow on it.
3. Clear Marco Rubio’s cache and delete his browser history.
If the Marco Rubio’s still not working, make sure he’s plugged in before calling customer service for help. It’s always embarrassing when the not-plugged-in thing is the right answer.
The story in Numbers 15:32 of the person stoned to death for picking up firewood on the Sabbath is enough to mean that answer is resounding No.
Also it would be very dangerous to argue with your parents whilst the Robot was around, given that Deuteronomy 21 also makes this subject to the death penalty.
It might also be a good idea to change from Cotton and Polyester blend shirts to pure Cotton before the robot is functional.
Yeah, I think I would. Considering all the contradictions in biblial laws I figure the first (and only) thing it would do is self-destruct due to conflicting directives.
Damn it! Steve Ruis got here before I did and ruined my ploy to play Devil’s Advocate on this as a non-denominational Fundamentalist. Grrrrr, thanks Mr. Ruis! 😉
But this meme is nonetheless an EPIC proof of just how ridiculous the Abrahamic religions and their followers desparately (and in futility) hang on to their “Divine traditions”, particularly in the case of their Canonical Scriptures — which by default proves further their disillusionment of “Divine Revelations” in ANY form, let alone a “journal” of who, what, where, and when… no wait!, not when, or how… no wait!, not really how either… their God behaves or exists! Did I make ANY SENSE whatsoever in trying to sound like a Fundamentalist Christian apologist??? LOL 😉
With all the contradictions, I wouldn’t be sure what to expect. Do later commandments override earlier ones? If so, the golden rule thing might not be too bad, although enforcing that might be problematic unless our robot was very intelligent.
Although far from being original, the Golden Rule is really only a suggestion, so i think our robot would have trouble analysing it in action and figuring out an appropriate punishment.
Probably. If it’s just an experiment, we could always have a Biblical Big Brother. Same rules, people get killed for transgressions. I think the ratings would be huge.
I would make sure to have pure cotton shirts should I design such a robot. Besides that robot wouldn’t be allowed to go after its creator. I mean God got to go against his own rules by murdering people. Lol
But at the same time, I’d rather trust a robot than the Abrahamic god.
After all, you must be insane, in some way, to trust a divine being that can be described like this:
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion.
Don’t we already have a malfunctioning bot in Mr. Hucklebuckle who has suspended his presidential campaign? Unlike you I do not think of myself as an atheist (more of a seeker), but I am amazed, disgusted and disturbed by those running for elective office who believe that Deity has chosen them. I would think even a demonic entity would have better taste. “Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name.”
“Seeker” is an awesome title! And you’re right, it is amazing that the Middle Eastern god, Yhwh, has such an interest in American right wing politics. Trickle Down economics was the central theme of the Sermon on the Mount, wasn’t it?
I suspect you may be a seeker too, John. I will not be following any punitive deities anytime soon, so no worries on that score. We could all be a cargo cult for an alien race for all I know. 😉
And he can’t wait for Armeggedon. He WILL push the button. We can’t let that happen. The idea that humans and all warm-blooded animals and amphibians will be exterminated by a demento, Rafael Cruz Jr., is too much to bear.
It takes the spirit of a man to understand the things of the spirit of man john. A robot can never conceive INTENT, therefore could never punish perfectly. This is why the adulterous woman was let go freely of her indiscretion……and the elders walked away condemned………..the weight of a broken law was revealed to their very conscience.
They who thought they interpreted the law correctly, were actually opposed to it. A robot could do no better.
Our robot would enforce Deuteronomy 22:28-29, forcing the rape victim to marry her rapist.
It would murder all unfaithful partners (Leviticus 20:10)
It would murder all people accused of sorcery (Exodus 22:17)
It would murder all homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13)
It would murder a child who hit his/her father (Exodus 21:15)
It would murder all followers of other religions (Exodus 22:19/2 Chronicles 15:12-13/Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
It would murder anyone who didn’t listen to a priest (Deuteronomy 17:12)
These Laws are as black and white as they come. Crime = Punishment. The only room for “interpretation” is in what method our robot uses to kill the criminals. He has options, you see:
Decapitation with the sword (Ex. 21:20; Lev. 26:25)
Strangulation (Lev. 20:10)
Death by burning with fire (Lev. 20:14)
Death by stoning (Deut. 22:24)
Just a question for you. Does a righteous man need to be reminded not to steal his neighbors cow?
Ah, but what if he WANTED to steal the cow…………………..see john, your robot has loose wires here, and would allow many a criminal to walk free.
The law was a schoolmaster……….it magnifies sin. People do not live in kindergarten forever, although some never want to leave the classroom of immaturity.
And I remind you, Israel was not to be reckoned among the nations. This law was not given to the Chinese, the Scots, the Aussies, the Argentinians, etc.
Sorry Colourstorm, but you’re just not making any sense, again.
Here’s a case: a man has sex with another man. The rules on this are quite clear:
“If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. (Leviticus 20:13)
Now, the only room for error here is if two naked men tripped, fell toward each other, got erections as they fell, and, completely by accident, penetrated the other’s anus’s… repeatedly, over hours and hours.
It’s a pretty open/shut case, isn’t it? So, as I pointed out above, the only thing left to decide here by our robot is whether to cut their heads off with a sword, strangle them, set them on fire, or stone them to death.
Since you are citing the scriptures as your defense……please refer me to the place where the homosexuals in Leviticus day were killed………….then I will be happy to proceed.
There is this thing called context. But for now, off to work.
I’ve already shown you the law…. Or are you suggesting it’s a false entry?
Do remember, we have the methods for the killing listed:
Decapitation with the sword (Ex. 21:20; Lev. 26:25)
Strangulation (Lev. 20:10)
Death by burning with fire (Lev. 20:14)
Death by stoning (Deut. 22:24)
And we have clear instructions that the people (ordinary people) should do the killing… as in Deut. 22:24:
“you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death–the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.”
jz
Let’s frame your concern in the context I suggested.
Of the 613 cumbersome laws, in which the ten are the foundation, we read this:
—-And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.—
The law magnifies sin. Do you need to be told to drive like a turtle while kids are walking in a school zone, or do you need a sign that says: ‘this is not Daytona……..please slow down?’
If you loved God with ALL your heart………soul……….mind………and strength…………no law would be necessary……………
Proving that ALL are lawbreakers. Your robot would short circuit not understanding this or grace, and has no power to execute punishment in the context of grace as -xprae stated so well at the other place.
How about focusing on the holiness of God, in the which I suppose, if men occupied themselves with such, the desire to stone someone would be conveniently off radar. That’s the point.
Israel has fallen, and attempting to uphold a broken law while ignoring something far better is sad really.
Um, no. I’ve never had sex with a man, so I haven’t broken that law. If you’ve had sex with a man, you would have broken that law, and our robot would strangle you, burn you to death, stone you to death, or cut your head off like an ISIS video.
I’ve never cheated on my wife, so I haven’t broken that law, either. But if you have cheated on your wife (are you married?) you would have broken that law and our robot would strangle you, burn you to death, stone you to death, or cut your head off like an ISIS video.
The Law is there, and it’s quite clear. Punishment, also, is clearly stated to be carried out by people then and there. Immediately… as I have demonstrated above.
Ah but john, let he without sin cast the first stone………………
Thus disqualifying you and I and all men. You are missing the greater point.
If you stole penny candy, or WANTED to steal penny candy, you are a lawbreaker……………
Why not focus on the righteousnesss of Abraham john…………WITHOUT LAW, and how his life was one of obedience and grace, and how this was highlighted also in the New Testament.
So, Colourstorm, would you feel safe having a robot programmed to enforce all biblical laws in your home? You have to think of your guests, those who visit, too, remember…
c’mon john, your robot is as immune from sin as Lassie.
Your robot cannot ‘murder.’ And I repeat, is completely unqualified to render judgment regarding the spirit of man.
Crap. It can easily determine if a man has his penis in another man. Case closed. Death. It can easily determine if a person is wearing mixed threads. Case closed. Death. It can easily determine if a partner has been unfaithful. Case closed. Death. It can easily determine if a child has cursed its parents. Case closed. Death.
So, Colourstorm, would feel safe having this robot in your home?
I can understand. Killing a ‘lawbreaker’ should be done after every stone has been uncovered, something that the punishing robot would have no interest.
So it is, ‘the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.’
“you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death–the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.”
“Maybe ‘the child that cursed his parents’ had a gun to his head……….surely your robot would ‘see’ he did so under duress……….or not.”
Your god doesn’t care about intent my dear. If not Uzzah wouldn’t have been zapped. Now perhaps Uzzah is in heaven because of his kind heart, but fact is he is dead. So in this case robot could still kill the child, and god bring the child up to heaven.
Isn’t that great? Wouldn’t you want the child to be in heaven instead of living on earth under duress?
I think I’ve seen that line of reasoning when talking about killing midanite babies.
This robot created by man to enforce biblical law would indeed destroy all, if that is the purpose of its program. If, however, it was programmed to have this so called “grace” than it would obviously not destroy, but would “gracefully” forgive those that broke the laws, that is if they repent and seek the robots forgiveness, otherwise bring on the sword, stones and lakes of fire. As far as intent goes I think we can see that the robot is obviously created with intent for the purpose of the creator. Seems to me “God” is thus also. A robot created in our image. These strict laws of the ancient past, and oddly some still today around the world, are a product of peoples creating systems for the most optimal chance of survival, i.e. these are the rules of this group, follow them and the group has the best chance of survival, defence and conquer, break them and punishment will ensue lest the group become weakened. It was not until people groups began to become more assimilated with other groups, beginning before Alexander then sped up by Alexander and multiplied by Rome, that grace began to enter the picture. Anyways, is God not just the robot we have created and as time passes on this robots functions begin to change by our reprogramming.
I am talking about God who created me, John. Why is this so difficult? Even you, an aethiest can conceive of God who created all of us. I think your confusion comes because you are a biblical literalist. Step away from your book and look within for answers.
I think you will find that while God does not think like me/us, we all have the innate capacity to understand God’s Law without your bible.
That has nothing to do with our robot executing its task. Law is Law. Punishment is punishment. And, as our robot is without sin, he can “cast the first stone.”
Buster, not when following God’s law they haven’t.
Really?
Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
John, God’s law has nothing to do with punishment.
John, those quotes are from the bible. They are not God’s law. They are examples of man’s attempt to write God’s law down (an impossible task). God’s law is easily accessible to everybody. You have it available to you right now. Go seek it.
Eric, you wrote, ” …those quotes are from the bible. They are not God’s law.”
Huh? Very strange comment. I would daresay most Christians would disagree since the bible is exactly where one finds God’s laws, God’s commandments, God’s suggestions on how to live (and what to do when God’s laws are broken).
If, as you say, this is “man’s attempt to write God’s law down,” (which, as you claim, is an impossible task), then how would anyone know what God’s law really is? You might think it’s one thing, I might think it’s something else, and John might believe otherwise. It seems if one is going to believe in “God,” there must be some guidelines to follow to ensure the person is on the right track.
Ex. 14:1; 20:1 The Lord spoke to Moses: 20:1 God spoke all these words:
Deut. 4:2; 32:48 (NET)
4:2 Do not add a thing to what I command you nor subtract from it, so that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I am delivering to you. 32:48 Then the Lord said to Moses that same day,
Isa. 1:10, 24 (NET)
1:10 Listen to the Lord’s word, you leaders of Sodom! Pay attention to our God’s rebuke, people of Gomorrah! 24 Therefore, the sovereign Lord who commands armies, the powerful ruler of Israel, says this: “Ah, I will seek vengeance against my adversaries, I will take revenge against my enemies.
1 Cor. 14:37 (NET)
14:37 If anyone considers himself a prophet or spiritual person, he should acknowledge that what I write to you is the Lord’s command.
I could go on, there are 3,800 times the Bible declares, “God said,” or “Thus says the Lord,” but I really couldn’t be bothered. 😉
…But Eric, let me just say that’s certainly a novel approach you have there to Christianity: The Middle Eastern god, Yhwh, exists, but the only source document for that god, the Bible, is fallacious and shouldn’t be trusted by anyone.
“…the bible is exactly where one finds God’s laws…”
Now you know that is not correct. There are how many versions on the bible? By definition, God’s Law is immutable. Therefore God’s immutable Law can not be found in a changing document.
No God’s Law can not be found in the bible. Man’s attempt to document God’s Law can be found in the bible. But God’s Law can be found easily enough.
Your or my opinion as to what God’s Law is has no more bearing on what God’s Law actually is than does what the bible says.
From my personal experiences, I’m going to guess you believe god’s law is “written on the heart.” If this is the case, then how YOU interpret what he’s written could very well be different from my version. Further, since “God” is not known to communicate verbally with humans, how can anyone really know what his law is … if it’s not in the book that so many highly value as “God’s Word”?
“Further, since “God” is not known to communicate verbally with humans, how can anyone really know what his law is … if it’s not in the book that so many highly value as “God’s Word”?”
Sorry, Nan, I missed the second part of your comment. I can not tell you how to discern God’s Law for yourself. Me, I just look inward for answers and they are always there.
I think what was written about Jesus’ take on the Law is probably pretty close though. If you try to live by the principle of Love God and Love Others you are probably on target more or less, imo.
John, you are putting words in my mouth. All I said was that the Law of the OT is man’s imperfect attempt to write down God’s Law. Nothing more nothing less.
I’m sorry Eric, but that’s not terribly convincing. We have Jesus himself confirming the OT Law is perfect:
“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17 NAB)
Of course, we’re also told the Middle Eastern god, Yhwh, can actually physically write, in human words, words that can be read, so if there was a blunder anywhere shouldn’t we have expected this omni-potent being to have corrected the mistake like a teacher marking an exam? You’d especially think this considering the severity of the punishment (ie. killing children, killing all people of other faiths, killing adulterers, homosexuals, witches…)
Suddenly the fingers of a human hand appeared and wrote on the plaster of the wall, near the lampstand in the royal palace. The king watched the hand as it wrote. — Daniel 5:5
The Lord said to Moses, “Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I will write on them the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke.”
— Exodus 34:1
Hmmmm. John, you made a point I’d never considered. Ywhw wrote “words” that the people would understand. How convenient.
And, to Eric’s point that the law of the OT is MAN’S imperfect attempt … why would almighty God allow this? Surely if God wanted humans to live according to “his” laws, why didn’t he write them himself as he did the 10 Commandments and the message to Daniel? Surely “he” knew all about the weaknesses and failings of humans to “get it right.”
Yhwh writes twice in words, which begs the question: if it considered the bible important, why not just pen the thing itself? It’s one of those awkward moments for the apologist.
“William” just wrote this comment on Nate’s blog. Thought it was relevant.
God is all powerful; perfect, complete and eternal – and this is the best he could compose; a “dictated” conflicting and highly disputed and argued over message that has men’s finger prints all over it?
“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17 NAB)”
Indeed this is true. By Jesus did not change any of God’s Law. He couldn’t even if he wanted to. You keep referring to what the bible reports is the Law. Imperfectly as I said.
So, you’re saying killing people of other faiths is not the law, even though its commanded in the bible? And how do you know this, Eric? And why couldn’t Jesus change the law? It’s his law, isn’t it?
(And apologies Eric, for some reason your comments are going into moderation. For some odd reason, it’s reading you occasionally as a new commenter)
And, to Eric’s point that the law of the OT is MAN’S imperfect attempt … why would almighty God allow this?”
God allows us to fail regularly. Nothing new there.
Surely if God wanted humans to live according to “his” laws, why didn’t he write them himself as he did the 10 Commandments and the message to Daniel?”
Why would he write his Law on papyrus or stone when he has a far more permanent, accurate, and reproducible media to use. I find it very likely that the Law has been there all along just waiting to be discovered.
“Surely “he” knew all about the weaknesses and failings of humans to “get it right.””
Exactly. Again the Law of the OT is not God’s Law. Never has been as is obvious if any one takes two minutes to think about it – for just the reasons you cite.
No, John. It is not even willed or desired. You obviously did not look inward if this is what you concluded.
But we have numerous passages saying just this. I’m not concluding anything. I’m simply reading.
Death to Followers of Other Religions: Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers: They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God: Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.: 1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
“But you can’t learn God’s Law by reading. I can give you a book the says Tinkerbell is real, would you consider it accurate to believe that then?”
This is hilarious on so many levels.
Firstly – “you can’t learn god’s law by reading.” So why the bible? This is one of the biggest horseshit I’ve heard a believer say.
Now, the charitable interpretation is you most probably meant you can’t learn god’s law by reading the bible alone. Perhaps that is right, but pray tell how the holy spirit can guide you and tell you that it is not ok to kill unbelievers, even though god told David to do it, told Moses to do it, told Aaron to do it (and many other more kings in the book of Kings), and yet it’s not god’s will nor desire to do so.
Secondly – “I can give you a book the says Tinkerbell is real, would you consider it accurate to believe that then”
I can give you a book that says this god is real and created the world. Would you consider it accurate to believe that then?
Not sure if you are actually trying to sink your own god…..
“Firstly – “you can’t learn god’s law by reading.” So why the bible?”
As I said, the Law in the bible is man’s attempt to capture God’s Law in writing. Obviously am impossible task. Go back and read what I wrote. This fact is obvious.
“Now, the charitable interpretation is you most probably meant you can’t learn god’s law by reading the bible alone.”
No, that is not true. One does not need the bible to know God’s Law. Many things in the bible directly contradict God’s Law.
”
Perhaps that is right, but pray tell how the holy spirit can guide you and tell you that it is not ok to kill unbelievers, even though god told David to do it, told Moses to do it, told Aaron to do it (and many other more kings in the book of Kings), and yet it’s not god’s will nor desire to do so.”
Since it is not God’s Law to do so, the inescapable conclusion is that the bible is wrong to say it is God’s Law.
“I can give you a book that says this god is real and created the world. Would you consider it accurate to believe that then?”
No. Why would anyone? My point exactly.
“Not sure if you are actually trying to sink your own god…..”
Not at all. So are you another biblical literalist? Sure are a lot of you on this site.
Eric, I think you’re going to have to tell us which god, precisely, you’re talking about. Is it the Middle Eastern god, Yhwh, some other named deity (Veles, for example), or some loose pantheistic/deistic notion. Is it a personal god you’re talking about, or an indifferent energy. This might help anyone talking to you to know exactly where you’re coming from, because right now, it seems you’re just talking complete nonsense.
The question reference God’s Law not the bible. There is no need to “interpret” God’s Law. Indeed, you couldn’t even if you felt the need. That is how we ended up with the bible after all.
thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com 
In a word… “No!”
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It’d be worrying.
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“I Robot” is an excellent analogy. No sane person would want to have “Sonny” around. “Creepy is as creepy does…” 🙂
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Hey John, “Leroy” is a great sample, I mean example, of the type of thinking that would blow the top off of Sonny’s robotic head. Poor Roy, he “believes” the truth is not just subjective, but it is a secret, too. Reason # 1,487,373,282 why I would not feel safe.
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None of us would be safe, including the Christians. The robot would make more like it and program these too and it would be the end of EVERYTHING. Religion ultimately destroys.
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Are you serious? Dabble bubble dang dang,
“So, the question before you, Roy, is this: Did Jesus mean what he said on the Mount, there in front of the hoards eagerly listening, or did he blunder? If he was going to say Mosaic Law no-longer applied then that would be the place and time to say it, wouldn’t you agree. What did he say, Roy…?
YES< YESThe Law Applies>The Law Applies>BUT BUT BUT
Jesus said, ” Let them among you who is without sin cast the first stone.”
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Exactly! Our robot would be “without sin.”
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There is one major problem with you question John. There are 71 Bible verses stating there is only one Judge and Executioner – God.
So, it is disingenuous for a man to hypothetically invent a robotic Judge and Executioner that is not qualified to hold said position.
Additionally, there are several reasons the Old Testament covenantal system was so harsh. I’m sure you are very aware of these reasons but ignore them to placate your followers.
The new covenant (New Testament) was prophesied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.” It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.
Of particular importance to your topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, “When He said, ‘A new covenant,’ He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.” The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.
The New Testament covenantal system says that we are to “be at peace with one another,” (Mark 9:50) and “with all men,” (Rom. 12:18). Rom. 14:19 says, “pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another.” After all, “God has called us to peace,” (1 Cor. 7:15).
However, this does not mean that we are to approve of such sins as homosexuality, adultery, lying, and stealing. We are to not participate in the sins of the world. Instead, we are to avoid them. We are not to be violent to anyone since the old theonomic, covenantal system has been done away with (Heb. 8:13). Instead, we are to be kind to them (2 Tim. 2:24-25) and show them love (1 Cor. 16:14, 2 Cor. 5:14). But the moral condemnation of immorality still stands–as is clearly taught in 1 Cor. 6:9-10 and Rom. 1:26-28.
While some may be ignorant to the content of Scripture and the teachings of Christ, they are by no means deprived of any knowledge of what is right and wrong, nor are they deprived of the knowledge of God’s existence. You, with your vast knowledge of Scripture, seem to be the ultimate Deceiver. You know full-well the omissions of Truth you leave out and full-well the deception and lies you weave into every anti-Biblical post.
Romans 1:20 tells us, “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” In reality, it is not that some people have not heard about Christ. Rather, the problem is that they have rejected what they have heard and what is readily seen in nature. Deuteronomy 4:29 proclaims, “But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.” This verse teaches an important principle: everyone who truly seeks after Truth will find it. If a person sincerely desires to know the true God, God will make Himself known.
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Hi Roy
”There are 71 Bible verses stating there is only one Judge and Executioner – God.
So, it is disingenuous for a man to hypothetically invent a robotic Judge and Executioner that is not qualified to hold said position.”
Well, this is not exactly true. In many places we have clear instructions that the people (ordinary people) should do the judging and the killing… as in Deut. 22:24:
As previously noted by Ken, we even have the methods people (ordinary people) are to use for the killing:
Decapitation with the sword (Ex. 21:20; Lev. 26:25)
Strangulation (Lev. 20:10)
Death by burning with fire (Lev. 20:14)
Death by stoning (Deut. 22:24)
“The new covenant (New Testament) was prophesied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.” It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.”
Roy, this is Paul, not Jesus. As stated above, if you want to posit this as being valid then you must also accept the following to be true:
You see, Roy, that’s hardly convincing, is it? I mean, are you seriously suggesting Jesus simply forgot to mention the most important theological point pertaining to a new religion?
Of course, if you can show me where Jesus says you’re free of Mosaic Law (chapter and verse) then you might have a point.
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That’s a lot to digest…kind of like trying to eat a dozen tacos: it makes no sense. In your own words you proved my point…”No” stands
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Leroy…one other story to clarify the ridiculousness of religion:
“A little boy was sitting on a street corner holding a bottle of liquid over his head, gazing at the suns rays cascading through the fluid.
A preacher passing by sees the little boy and stops, and asks, “Son, what are you doing?”
“I’m looking at the most powerful liquid in the world…turpentine” the little boy responded with pride.
The preacher, chuckling, responded, “Son, turpentine isn’t the most powerful liquid in the world–holy water is! If you rub holy water on a pregnant woman’s stomach she will pass a baby boy!”
“That’s nothing. If you rub turpentine on a cat’s ass it’ll pass a motorcycle”
I hope that clears things up…
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I’ll address each of your two points John, from last to first…
The New Covenant – I believe the basis’s for this is clearly established at the Last Supper where we read, “And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.” (Luke 22)
Christians believe that Jesus is the mediator of the New Covenant, and that the Blood of Christ shed at his crucifixion is the required blood of the New Covenant. As with all covenants between God and man described in the Bible, the New Covenant is considered “a bond in blood sovereignly administered by God.” The New Covenant is the Law of Christ as spoken, mainly in His Sermon on the Mount, but also through His teachings and life example throughout the NT..
In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus tells us how to live and treat others. (Matthew 5) Some Christian teachings refer to the first 10 commands given by Jesus as the Works of Mercy, which have corporal and spiritual components, these verses resonate with the theme of the Beatitude for mercy. These teachings emphasize that these acts of mercy provide both temporal and spiritual benefits.
***
The focus you have for the Old Testament Covenant is not valid after the New Covenant was established through Christ’s shed blood. After saying that, I’ll give a defense for God’s Law, even though He doesn’t need it.
It must be remembered that the culture of the ancient Israelite’s and their surrounding nations was one of many different vile sins, including human sacrifice of the first born. God touched down in time first through Moses to reveal his laws, some of which if we view a-historically, as cruel, but at the time the 613 O/T laws were a big change philosophically from the surrounding cultures. Finally with the coming of God’s word made flesh the fullness of the message is revealed. Christ came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it, but when Christ was confronted with the woman caught in adultery he didn’t shout “STONE HER” (as God had commanded adulterers be treated) instead he raised the ethical bar higher, as it were, by saying “Let he who is without sin among you be first to cast the stone”.
Matthew 19:9 “I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.” Wouldn’t this cause the man to be put to death?
Mark 10:11 “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her.” Again, wouldn’t he then be put to death since he would have committed adultery?
Mark 10:12 “And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.” Same question I ask about the women who are considered have committed adultery. Wouldn’t they be put to death also?
Luke 16:18 “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.”
My question here is: Would an adulterer in the New Testament be put to death? No.
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Hmmm. I was taught that God is the same yesterday, today, and always.
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Sorry Roy, but that doesn’t say anything about freeing you from Mosaic Law. Now, don’t forget, this is the most important theological point, there shouldn’t be any ambiguity. And, you know what, there isn’t any ambiguity. Jesus is quite clear about his opinion on Mosaic Law.
If he was going to overthrow it, he would have said so in much the same way he said here that he wasn’t. Here is a Christian theologian confirming just this point:
Are you a theologian, Roy?
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Hey Luke,
The joke was sorta OK. Didn’t make me laugh.
This might be funnier…
A boy is selling fish on a corner. To get his customers’ attention, he is yelling, “Dam fish for sale! Get your dam fish here!” A pastor hears this and asks, “Why are you calling them ‘dam fish.'” The boy responds, “Because I caught these fish at the local dam.” The pastor buys a couple fish, takes them home to his wife, and asks her to cook the dam fish. The wife responds surprised, “I didn’t know it was acceptable for a preacher to speak that way.” He explains to her why they are dam fish. Later at the dinner table, he asks his son to pass the dam fish. He responds, “That’s the spirit, Dad! Now pass the fucking potatoes!”
Now that made me laugh!
This next one might be even more funny…
Josey wasn’t the best pupil at Sunday school. She often fell asleep and one day while she was sleeping, the teacher asked her a question. “Who is the creator of the universe?” Joe was sitting next to Josey and decided to poke her with a pin to wake her up. Josey jumped and yelled, “God almighty!” The teacher congratulated her. A little later the teacher asked her another question, “Tell me who is our lord and savior?” Joe poked Josey again and she yelled out, “Jesus Christ!” The teacher congratulated her again. Later on the teacher asked, “What did Eve say to Adam after their 26th child?” Joe poked Josey again and she shouted, “If you stick that thing in me again, I’ll snap it in half and stick it up your ass!”
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Hello Nan,
He is,was, and always will be.
The Bible is a sealed book to every man, learned or unlearned, till he begins to study it with a simple heart and a teachable spirit, that he may then learn the truth and the will of God. To worship God, is to approach him. And if the heart be full of his love and fear, out of the abundance of it the mouth will speak; but there are many whose religion is lip-labour only. When they pretend to be speaking to God, they are thinking of a thousand foolish things. They worship the God of Israel according to their own devices. Numbers are only formal in worship. And their religion is only to comply with custom, and to serve their own interest. But the wanderings of mind, and defects in devotion, which are the believer’s burden, are very different from the withdrawing of the heart from God, so severely blamed. And those who make religion no more than a pretense, to serve a turn, deceive themselves. And as those that quarrel with God, so those that think to conceal themselves from him, in effect charge him with folly. But all their perverse conduct shall be entirely done away. It will be burn and consumed.
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Which version of the bible? There are dozens.
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Thanks, but I really didn’t need a sermon. I just wanted to point out to you that your comment: Would an adulterer in the New Testament be put to death? No. is not accurate if what I wrote was true — which you agreed that it was.
Thus …
And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.. Leviticus 20:10 (ASV)
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Interesting question Buster,
Translating of Scripture has been ongoing since 300 B.C.E. when tradition tell us 72 Jewish scholars were ordered by Egyptian ruler Ptolemy II to provide a Greek translation of the Old Testament for Alexandrian Jews who gradually had lost touch with the Hebrew language. Thus the Septuagint Greek Old Testament emerged. The Septuagint is the first attempt to translate the Hebrew Old Testament into another language, and is based on Hebrew manuscripts 1,000 years older than the Hebrew of the Masoretic text on which our Bibles are based.
More than 1,700 ancient manuscripts of the Hebrew Scriptures exist today, but none of them are originals. Until over 60 years ago, the oldest existing Hebrew manuscript was the Masoretic, prepared by Jews known as Masoretes in the 5th and 6th centuries of our common era. With the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947, much older Hebrew documents—dating from 100 B.C.E to 100 C.E.—became available. The Scrolls include parts or all of the Old Testament books but Esther.
Said to be the closest thing to a standard Bible among evangelicals is the New International Version. A team of 115 scholars spent seven years producing this contemporary language Bible in 1978. Each book was assigned to a team of scholars, who passed their work on to an intermediate committee who checked it with the Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek. Then a general editorial committee double-checked the work. Still another committee made any needed changes.
The primary concern was for accuracy, clarity, and natural English style. For the Old Testament they used the Masoretic Text, Biblia Hebraica,, Samaritan Pentateuch, Septuagint, Vulgate, Syriac, Peshitta, Targums, and Jerome’s Juxta Hebraica, for the Psalms, as well as consulted the Dead Sea Scrolls. Numerous Greek texts were used for the New Testament.
If you want to read Scripture online try https://www.biblegateway.com Easy to read Chapters and verses in different versions.
The NIV employs a dynamic equivalence form of translating in a number of passages. This method calls for using a word or phrase that makes the impact that the original had on its first readers, rather than using a simple grammatical or lexical equivalent. In English style it is similar to the Revised Standard Version.
The study version employs footnotes. Drawbacks are that it, as most, is not faithful to the sacred Names, and the New Testament reflects popular and sometimes erroneous dogma.
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I didn’t give you a Sermon Nan. Just a simple explanation.
You have to realize Christ is God is the Holy Spirit. God is a tri-being.
“Before the world began, the Word was there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was there with God in the beginning. Everything was made through him, and nothing was made without him.” John 1:1-3
‘Jesus’ always existed. He is God in the flesh, just one aspect of what is the creator. There are simple-to-understand parables Jesus used to explain His relationship to the three aspects of God.
JZ likes to see the events unfolding as “God changing His mind”. Where in reality it’s a road trip. He takes rights and lefts and sometimes goes straight. There is a final destination and to get there one has to make direction changes. It’s His plan, His design, and we are just along for the ride. JZ, and many others like yourself, see this changing as a contradiction where it really isn’t.
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I would add Nan that many souls have been damaged. CRUSHED. And they readily blame God. ” How could God allow this to happen to me is a common question.
But He stands ready to give you comfort and healing. ASK HIM and accept what is yours. You are His creation and nothing is beyond His power. He will heal you and love you and wipe every tear away. All you have to do is ACT.
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Leroy, there are few things I like less than being preached to. If you don’t think that is what you are doing I suggest you ask the owner of this blog. Or hell! Ask any one of the various participants of his blog. There are ways to comment withour quoting scripture,. For example, your own words. Wow! How original.
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The owner seems to have been silenced, and the others may be scared to confront.
I’m not preaching to you. Perhaps something inside you is really hearing my words and is tormented by them. There is an alternative to your pain, you do not have to hold on to it forever.
The post, and entire blog content for that matter, is to hate God and so label Christians stupid. So, using Truth (Scripture), one blood-bought Christian makes a stand. Scripture will pierce hearts and lay the guilty in shame.
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Give. Me. A. Break.
Been there done that. “Scripture” is nothing more than a bunch of words put down by men who suffered from delusions that an invisible supernatural entity existed somewhere “out there.” If you wish to take it seriously, that’s your perogative. I don’t.
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The owner seems to have been silenced
Oh come now, Roy, don’t let your cartoon reality affect actual reality. The “owner” works in a different time zone than you.
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That got you didn’t it John!
You asked a very simple question, “…show me where Jesus says you’re free of Mosaic Law”.
Jesus freed us by shedding his blood for us. We are all dead in sin under the Old Covenant. God knows this. We, as hard as we try, error. The solution for His beloved. Make a way to bring mine to me. This, in His own words, is the New (blood) Covenant as plainly taught and spoken by the Lord Himself.
You know very well since Jesus entered the scene there is not punishment like there was under the OT Covenant, It STOPPED. Jesus said, ” Let them among you who is without sin cast the first stone.”
You love to quote Scripture in a twisted and false way. Yes, He did not come to abolish the Law. It is still a sin to commit adultery, ALL THE LAW REMAINS, but the Christian now is to extol mercy as Jesus commanded. We are to meter out the same we expect God to meter to us. “forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us” Now, in this age, GOD is the Judge, not us. Now, God is the executioner, not us. God sent His Word to teach and be a living sacrifice, ” Your love must be real. Hate what is evil. Do only what is good. Love each other in a way that makes you feel close like brothers and sisters. And give each other more honor than you give yourself.”
There is virtually zero ambiguity. Your supposed “ambiguity” is an invention you designed. You hide behind a false and see-thru curtain people like me clearly ascertain. You only placate an audience of hurt and shattered souls who blame God for their pain. People like Nan who states, “Been there done that. “Scripture” is nothing more than a bunch of words put down by men who suffered from delusions”.
She obviously has been hurt and has no idea that God Almighty can pull all that crap right out of her. She doesn’t have to live with it everyday. It breaks my heart that people let themselves suffer day-after-day with emotional pain. He can heal you and He is waiting, just ask with all your heart.
***
We are in different time zones John…your two hours ahead and were probably asleep. My bad.
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You got me? Really? Um, I can’t see where you’ve quoted Jesus contradicting what he so clearly states in Matthew. That’s unambiguous. His thoughts on Mosaic Law (named) are quite clear…. as the theologian I linked to says.
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Sssshhhh! You’ll interrupt his preaching to himself.
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Leroy, people (like you) that write things like this …
“She obviously has been hurt and has no idea that God Almighty can pull all that crap right out of her. She doesn’t have to live with it everyday. It breaks my heart that people let themselves suffer day-after-day with emotional pain. He can heal you and He is waiting, just ask with all your heart.”
… make me see red! You don’t know me. You don’t know my history. You don’t have ANY idea of my experiences with “God.” So DON’T sit in judgment of me and give me a bunch of horse shit about how “God” is going to do such wonders with poor lil’ me and my awful terrible “emotional pain.”
Truth be known, I feel sorry for YOU that you have been so taken in by the nonsense that Christianity teaches. If you took time to study the history of how it all got started (outside of your “holy book” and what you hear from the pulpit), you might learn a thing or two. I know I did … and I put it all down in a book (which, BTW, is rated 5 stars on Amazon),
And DON’T think my anger comes from the fact that you’ve reached me at some deep emotional level because God …
It’s because you inserted yourself into my life when you have NO right to do so.
(Sorry John. Didn’t mean to get carried away, but I think you understand where I’m coming from.)
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So we will end it there then.
Jesus sums up you, and all like you, when He said, “To you (the apostles) it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:
“‘“You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.”
For this people’s heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.’
But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.””
Sad to me, but foretold…it is what it is.
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End what? You haven’t even made a point.
From Bible.org
https://bible.org/article/mosaic-law-its-function-and-purpose-new-testament
The key word here is, of course, Confusion, and for very good reason. Jesus said one thing (the law stands until heaven and earth pass away), yet Paul said another. You want to quote a passing reference to some “new covenant,” but then you have to admit (if I grant you the “interpretation” you’re reading into it, which I’m not) that Jesus is here contradicting his most important sermon. Confusion. Why would Jesus contradict himself? And he was going back on what he said on the Mount, then why not be a tad more clear about it? Confusion. Confusion. Confusion.
Of course, you’re certainly free to point to Paul to make your point. That’s fine. However, as I’ve pointed out to you, to do so is to admit that Jesus blundered terribly, saying the exact opposite of what you, Roy, are trying to say he meant. And of course, many an apologist then divides ceremonial law from moral law, which is really nothing but a desperate theological-two-step.
Roy, I showed you a theologian who flatly disagrees with you. Now, you’re not a theologian, so I think I’ll take his reading of scripture to be more authoritative than your amateur opinion.
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No apologies are needed to John, and certainly not to me Nan. You, my dear, are not alone. There are millions just like you and their history all starts from point A, abuse.
I speak to John, only. Others butt into He and I’s conversations and I respond in kind. I meet each at their level. if you want jokes I got jokes. I see it and I feel it. It’s been that way for over two years with John and me and how the hell I miss Christos, the one-eyed guy, and Prayson. Me, Nathan and the Monkey, you are not the first and I have an insight to see fake shit deflectant always.
Again, I speak to John and his bull-shit. Inject yourself and you too will get the wrath of God telling you to suck it up and come home and be healed, or die forever.
Your anger is not really directed at me now, is it?
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Roy, you’re typing in the nude, aren’t you?
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And he’s not using his fingers.
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And furiously masturbating in his mind thinking he’s gotten you served JZ.
Seriously.
Dude “There are millions just like you and their history all starts from point A, abuse.”
This is one of those extremely condescending pile of shit I’ve seen from self-righteous folks who need to think that people who disagree with them are “broken” just to make their own puny ego feel good.
Seriously fuck you Leroy.
(or are you a satire? TBH I’m not sure since your name is Leroy and you have like some crazy mutton chops as though it is 1800s, go google Leroy Jenkins)
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Come on John. You will never honestly and truthfully use the Bible against itself. You really can’t be that stupid. Then again, I may be wrong about you….
You take a few lines from an article on bible.com out of context to prove your point. Reading further in the article I see, ” For the law of the life-giving Spirit in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death (law of Moses). For God achieved (the New Covenant of the blood of Christ) what the law (Law of Moses Old Covenant) could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the righteous requirement of the law (the Law of Moses) may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
Ha. A New Covenant is born.
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That is the authors “opinion,” which he/she admits in the opening passage contradicts other Christian teachers of “repute”…. Hence confusion. And again, I showed you a theologian’s reading that flatly says you’re wrong. Why should I disregard that in favour of your amateur opinion?
So, the question before you, Roy, is this: Did Jesus mean what he said on the Mount, there in front of the hoards eagerly listening, or did he blunder? If he was going to say Mosaic Law no-longer applied then that would be the place and time to say it, wouldn’t you agree. What did he say, Roy…?
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Damn. I got to scroll way up to comment.
Not typing in the nude but I do have my hand in my pants and I am holding it.
Fuck you too loser. Sorry about your bad luck Powell.
The name Leroy is a French baby name. In French the meaning of the name Leroy is: The King. My middle name is William and Grandma called me Willy till the day she died.
I’m a Junior, very white, well gray now, and American, from German ancestry. I fly the American flag, served in the US army, and am patriotic to a fault. Fuck with me, fuck with my Country, Fuck with my God, and you fuck with death. My Grandmother came from Germany and was fluent in German. My Uncles were named Charles, Melvin and Harry and they where some tough son-of-bitches.
I am hear at your service.
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So, I copy and pasted this again, under the right :reply: link. lets hope this works….
Are you serious? Dabble bubble dang dang,
“So, the question before you, Roy, is this: Did Jesus mean what he said on the Mount, there in front of the hoards eagerly listening, or did he blunder? If he was going to say Mosaic Law no-longer applied then that would be the place and time to say it, wouldn’t you agree. What did he say, Roy…?
YESThe Law Applies>BUT BUT BUT
Jesus said, ” Let them among you who is without sin cast the first stone.”
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Exactly! Our robot would be “without sin”
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Did you just liked your own comment?
K dude.
What’s with me fucking your God and USA? You have issues.
My problem is with you white bible-belt trash.
P.S. I was in the military for 2 years as well. so come at me brah? fucking fuck face and your internet bravado.
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That was me channeling my inner Ark. I’m good now.
Now I need to go clean myself.
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I thought I’d make one last replay to this post. It’s too tedious to scroll up the the reply link. I’ll catch you guys in the next post, no doubt it will be more false and hate-speech BS.
What I learned…Nan doesn’t liked to be preached to and she does not like Scripture. God’s word convicts and no one wants to be convicted and killed… Powell served in the US Military but has no no clue what we fight for is FREEDOM. We are a Nation of immigrants and most came to escape religious persecution. We came to be free to worship as we choose to worship and we fight for freedom. Freedom for ALL faiths…John is wrong always. He uses the Bible (God’s inspired Word) against itself, always an utter failure. It’s NEVER worked and never will. And Luke has jokes, lame but it inspired me to one-up, and really, life is joy and we need to laugh, Thanks Luke!
***
I sold Walmart (WMT) today, for a nice 14.67% profit (bought it at $57.77 per share and sold it at $66.48). I used the proceeds to but CSCO and MO, both solid Company’s currently rated very bullish by many key analysts. Buy Dividend Champions and sell high and buy low, and always Dividend Champs and Kings. I love Coca-Cola (KO) and have 1230 shares. They raised the dividend this year another 2 cents, to $00.35. 54 years in a row Coke has raised it’s dividend.
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OK. I just ‘liked’ my own post again, couldn’t resist to screw up The Stupid.
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Congrats my friend. That’s really good satire. Cheers.
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If I programmed it, I would feel fine – but if the pope programmed it – oh! Wait. He’s got lots of priests already programmed …
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Ha! Courting boy toys must be hidden somewhere in the more obscure books, like Titus.
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Heck no I wouldn’t feel safe ! Have you read the 613 laws of the Mitzvot ???? 🙂
http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
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84. Not to commit sodomy with one’s father (Lev. 18:7) (CCN111).
Well, what if he’s a very attractive man?
104. Not to have intercourse with a beast (Lev. 18:23) (CCN117).
Well, again, some goats can be devilishly handsome…
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162. Not to eat the flesh of an ox that was condemned to be stoned (Ex. 21:28) (negative).
What the hell? Who would condemn an ox to be stoned??
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They had pot to waste on oxen in those days? Wow~!
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This is a strange one, even for the bible.
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I would think #14 would bother many Christians, especially those who wrote the NT
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Ooops! Looks like we’re all damned 😉
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Many Christians haven’t a clue what the 613 laws are or where to find them. I’ve gotten several to read them. Afterwards some realize how ridiculous some parts of the Bible really are.
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They don’t like it when you point out they’re not following the 10 commandments that were used to make a covenant, but the earlier set that were broken.
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They wouldn’t be above slavery or rape.. so “no” initially. But I can’t help feel they would be conflicted about enforcing a lot of rules.. which of the contradictory commandments would take precedence, for example?
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Bugger the commandments. Our robot would enforce laws like Deuteronomy 22:28-29, where a rape victim would be forced to marry her rapist. Our robot would murder anyone suspected of sorcery Exodus 22:17, murder all homosexuals Leviticus 20:13, murder a child who hit his/her father Exodus 21:15, murder a child who cursed their parents Leviticus 20:9, murder unfaithful partners Leviticus 20:10, murder all followers of other religions Exodus 22:19/2 Chronicles 15:12-13/Deuteronomy 13:7-12, murder anyone working on the Sabbath Exodus 31:12-15, and murder anyone who didn’t listen to a priest Deuteronomy 17:12…. and that’s just a short list.
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That’s what I mean. All commandments or instructions. The robot would have to know when the 10 didn’t count because of Ex 22:17 or when Ex 22:17 didn’t count because of the 10 etc. I’m pretty sure such a robot would just break. Terrifying yes, but inherently flawed because the Bible is erroneous as hell (expression intended)
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That’d be an interesting programming experiment 😉
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Coding is a bit of a hobby of mine. It would be fairly time consuming but interesting to write a program that processed a typed sin and told you what the Bible told to do and the chain of errors preceding from it
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John,
Using the prescribed Christian perspective, they would likely say: “C’mon, John…be real. Jesus changed all of that rubbish about rape, sodomy, incest, genocide, diets…even the day we worship! That’s the OLD testament! That’s not Yahweh, Yahweh is “love.” Yahweh simplified the Law. The new law is clear: Love God and love each other including your enemies!”
And…that “change” presents a new conflict with Yahweh’s rules…laws for robots like Sonny.
Sadly, Sonny the Robot would come closer to reflecting those traits than the average, everyday spirit-possessed Christians…at least from my experience. Sonny would try…but then computation errors would surface.
Sonny the robot would share the same fate as we mortals. Perfection won’t last–even for a robot. Sonny would eventually short-out and blow-up when trying to reconcile his perfect creator and Yahweh’s new rules of engagement-love–with the “reality” Yahweh somehow also intentionally and purposefully created a perfectly capable tempter, a hell and a preset programming “error”…”sin.”
“This does not compute” says Sonny.
Sonny will grow confused. Despondent. Sonny will….doubt.
The machinery of “guilt” would eat up all the bandwidth in Sonny. Rationale computing would be impossible.
Poor Sonny, the perfect robot will sin…short fuse…and then…
Go to Gehenna for robots…the scrap heap…and be melted down to reincarnate as a toaster.
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Ah, but Jesus never said a word about freeing people from Mosaic Law. In fact, he said quite the opposite, and a Christian theologian agrees:
The programming problem for our murderous Sonny would be the contradictions it encountered.
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🙂
John, (doing my best CS imitation):
“Hey, JZ, I offered a “fictional” response…and you expect me to remain factual, even using the Bible to support fiction? You can’t understand that, can you? If you don’t believe, you can’t perceive! That’s what Paul said. Willful ignorance…the gift of disbelieving reality is not upon you, in you or in your mailbox. John, Jesus came to fulfill the Law! Kind of like winning the lottery. And Jesus did fulfill what his father and his spirit–all three–knew and perfectly intended! Yahweh crucified himself–all part of the overall perfect plan you perfectly fail to perceive the beauty of the blood and murder Yahweh in the flesh, real time. C’mon, John, this is eternity! (Growl…)”
🙂
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LOL! That was quite good!
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Thanks…actually, it’s all too simple, isn’t it? lol 🙂
Have a great day–I’ve got to run.
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Lol, would you stop making so much sense??!!!! I think I’m liking every reply!
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It’s one of those “Oh, shit, that’s awkward” moments 😉
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Hey, John, maybe we could get rid of a few of the “True Believers” (TM) with one of these! I LIKE IT! I LIKE IT!
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Conservative Evangelical Christians in the US would last all of a single afternoon, I know!
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I love shellfish. That alone condemns me 🙂
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I’m fond of 1970’s polyester shirts. Damned!
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I see they had a few options for killing:
Punishment and Restitution
285. That the Court shall pass sentence of death by decapitation with the sword (Ex. 21:20; Lev. 26:25) (affirmative).
286. That the Court shall pass sentence of death by strangulation (Lev. 20:10) (affirmative).
287. That the Court shall pass sentence of death by burning with fire (Lev. 20:14) (affirmative).
289. That the Court shall pass sentence of death by stoning (Deut. 22:24) (affirmative).
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I like choices 🙂
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What are the fucking religious fundamentalists up to now?
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Thankfully, not programming robots 😉
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We already have [too many meat] robots trying to enforce biblical laws! Had one in my home that terrorised me so I got rid of it. Here’s a related article: https://www.rt.com/usa/331801-bestiality-homosexuality-sexuality-michigan/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome.
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What the… ??? I was under the impression that Michigan was one of the saner states?
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Crazy isn’t it? Nothing more motivating than belief in belief.
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Just a tasty little slice if ISIS in the good ol’ US of A.
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“Just a tasty little slice if ISIS in the good ol’ US of A.” Yes indeed. Watching 7th century laws being enforced (and condoned by liberals) in the 21st century is very disconcerting.
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USA! USA! USA! Exceptional!
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NOPE. NOPE. NOPE. NOPE. NOPE. NOPE. ATHEIST NEKO CAT DOES NOT APPROVE ONE BIT. THIS WILL TAKE SEVERAL SACRIFICED CHILDREN TO EXORSICE FROM MY HOME.
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Sacrificed, or just murdered for transgressions? On the bright side, your robot does have options as to how the child shall be killed: decapitation, strangulation, stoning, and everyone’s favourite, burning.
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No it will have to be sacrifice. But, as you know, I have option to do all that without robotic help.
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Well, children should live with the threat of death hanging over their heads. I mean, that’s what the Christian Reconstructionist Gary North preaches:
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NOPE NOPE NOPE NOT DOING IT NOPE WHY
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OMG, you effing genius! Brilliant!! Issac Asimov’s remains are glowing in the dark in appreciation!
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LOL! The idea isn’t mine, though. I saw something like this a few weeks ago and just made my own.
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And, another thing … ;o) Some apologist is likely to claim that the NT superseded the OT and those “old rules” no longer apply. To them I respond “You mean all of those things Yahweh said in the Bible were wrong? That they were just a mistake? And all of the modern Evangelical Christians whining on and on about the Ten Commandments don’t realize that they are mistaken, that … etc.”
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An apologist can try, but they will fail. Jesus said nothing of the like. Paul did, sort of, but not Jesus… So, what said apologist is essentially saying is that in Jesus’ entire life, including his three-year ministry in which he had an awful lot to say about all sorts of things, including his specific thoughts on Mosaic Law, he simply forgot to mention that none of that actually still applied. Simply slipped his mind. He made a boo-boo, a blunder. In fact, according to said apologist, he accidently said the exact opposite of what was actually on his mind. Silly, foolish, stupid nincompoop. A veritable butter-fingers, the hopeless fool.
Ooops!
So, to make up for this rather embarrassing brain fart, some thirty years after his death he privately visits a man, Saul, to let him know that he blundered and that people really shouldn’t murder people suspected of, say, sorcery, or kill, for example, homosexuals. Slavery, though, was still permitted, and encouraged.
That’s tremendously convincing 🙂
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That was a huge reason for my deconversion. I was taught God doesn’t change. So God is the god of the OT, and he is a horrible person! I’ve tried to explain this to some family members, but they don’t see it. Then they will post a verse from proverbs or psalms… So I would post one from the OT… Lol.. I had to stop because I think my family was going to start hating me.
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Pigs might fly first on either count. Not in my lifetime. Hopefully by the time robots are commonplace in the home this whole stupid religion thing will have died a most deserved death.
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Ramen! I’d like my robot programmed with Murphy’s Law, just to keep me on my toes 😉
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Aren’t robots kind of against the notion of Christian values anyway?
For a robot spouting religious doctrine to exist would imply major political control on behalf of the religious party in question. The Jihadists wouldn’t employ robots because they like killing themselves too much, and any Christian robot would have had to have been developed according to corrupt pseudo-capitalist-religioso principles. Idolatry and all that (spit).
Robots would be very temperamental, much like our computers these days – not much has changed there in the last 35 years.
You’d have your Amazon and Google robots, your McCrapple (merging of Microsoft and Apple), your Sony Robot and possibly a few other pretenders.
Hackers would be corrupting their software constantly.
As long as science holds the reigns of credibility, religion will not stand a chance of ever exacting that kind of power again.
Just a thought. 😉
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McCrapple LOL!
And I hope you’re right…
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Who knows? Everything is possible…
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Yikes! What a scary thought. The only thing that would make this idea scarier is if the robots looked like Pat Robertson.
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Ah, well there’d be no Pat Robertson as our robot would have murdered him for false prophecy.
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Great irony there. Pat Robertson is murdered for being a false prophet by a robot that looks just like him.
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My fear is R2-Cruz2
Can you imagine that face executed in poor quality Chinese plastic?
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Maybe we can build a robot that looks like Ted Cruz to whack American conservatives who lack empathy and compassion for their fellow humans.
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But you already have the Marco Rubio Robot… although I hear that short-circuited this week.
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That was truly amazing. He simply kept repeating a memorized speech about Obama no matter what he was asked. Literally kept saying the exact words over and over. I’ll find the link for you. It’s hilarious.
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Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUi5dDMUgVE
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Classic!
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They called it his Dan Quayle moment.
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LOL! Deer, meet headlights. Headlights, this is deer.
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I was just reading a comment on the Slate website. They observed that part of the problem is that Rubio appears not to be a self learning, self improving Robot. They obviously need to tweak the AI a bit still.
The article went on to provide some helpful advice to his campaign team:
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Brilliant!
If you had a programmed x-ian (aren’t they all?) in your home enforcing biblical laws, would you feel safe?
Aint nuttin scares me more than a bunch of good x-ians!
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Do remember, though, they love you, just hate the sin.
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Oh yeah, THAT makes me feel better 🙂
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And there’s no better way to get rid of sin than by burnin’ it out! Get the kindling wood and the stakes, we’re goin’ on a hunt for sinners.
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The story in Numbers 15:32 of the person stoned to death for picking up firewood on the Sabbath is enough to mean that answer is resounding No.
Also it would be very dangerous to argue with your parents whilst the Robot was around, given that Deuteronomy 21 also makes this subject to the death penalty.
It might also be a good idea to change from Cotton and Polyester blend shirts to pure Cotton before the robot is functional.
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And ditch those lobsters in the freezer.
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I will be dead before I could say no
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It was the polyester, wasn’t it?
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Calling the dog’s name in vain.
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…whilst wearing polyester, right?
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Of course or working on the sabbath. One wouldn’t know which was the sabbath day. God didn’t say
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…working on a shrimp boat, on the Sabbath, wearing polyester, and practicing sorcery. Killing you once would be merciful!
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Second Wed, following the third month after the second equinox in the Chinese year of the cricket.
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You see what I mean. I could be working on the sabbath and not know it
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There was already a movie done about this.
It was called “The Terminator.”
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Ah 🙂
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Wait, nevermind. The SkyNet robots trying to wipe out humanity aren’t as hardcore as Biblically programmed ones. My bad.
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At least they have a logical outcome in mind.
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Especially bearing in mind that with today’s very smart technology nothing can possibly go rwong!
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Trrue 😉
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Yeah, I think I would. Considering all the contradictions in biblial laws I figure the first (and only) thing it would do is self-destruct due to conflicting directives.
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I think you’re right, it’d last all of five seconds.
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Damn it! Steve Ruis got here before I did and ruined my ploy to play Devil’s Advocate on this as a non-denominational Fundamentalist. Grrrrr, thanks Mr. Ruis! 😉
But this meme is nonetheless an EPIC proof of just how ridiculous the Abrahamic religions and their followers desparately (and in futility) hang on to their “Divine traditions”, particularly in the case of their Canonical Scriptures — which by default proves further their disillusionment of “Divine Revelations” in ANY form, let alone a “journal” of who, what, where, and when… no wait!, not when, or how… no wait!, not really how either… their God behaves or exists! Did I make ANY SENSE whatsoever in trying to sound like a Fundamentalist Christian apologist??? LOL 😉
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Oddly enough, yes!
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Bwahahaha! Smart ass! 😉
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With all the contradictions, I wouldn’t be sure what to expect. Do later commandments override earlier ones? If so, the golden rule thing might not be too bad, although enforcing that might be problematic unless our robot was very intelligent.
Short answer: no.
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Although far from being original, the Golden Rule is really only a suggestion, so i think our robot would have trouble analysing it in action and figuring out an appropriate punishment.
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I think that’s an interesting challenge indeed. But wouldn’t the poor wee thing self destruct?
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Probably. If it’s just an experiment, we could always have a Biblical Big Brother. Same rules, people get killed for transgressions. I think the ratings would be huge.
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Dunno if this is time or place, but somewhere in a technology update was mention of a robot/androidish “love doll” (quite cute, too).
I imagine it would be a huge seller in Islam …
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Well I might be safe, but everybody around me who is clearly my enemy would be dead. Smite away my precious robot…smite away. *evil laugh*
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Come on, you only have pure cotton shirts?
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I would make sure to have pure cotton shirts should I design such a robot. Besides that robot wouldn’t be allowed to go after its creator. I mean God got to go against his own rules by murdering people. Lol
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Nope. I’d be terrified.
What a horrible thought!
But at the same time, I’d rather trust a robot than the Abrahamic god.
After all, you must be insane, in some way, to trust a divine being that can be described like this:
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion.
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Granted, at least the robot would be predictable.
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Reminds me of something that James T. Kirk would have great joy in destroying.
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B’wahahaha! 🙂
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LOL! This is great!
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Cheers
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Don’t we already have a malfunctioning bot in Mr. Hucklebuckle who has suspended his presidential campaign? Unlike you I do not think of myself as an atheist (more of a seeker), but I am amazed, disgusted and disturbed by those running for elective office who believe that Deity has chosen them. I would think even a demonic entity would have better taste. “Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name.”
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“Seeker” is an awesome title! And you’re right, it is amazing that the Middle Eastern god, Yhwh, has such an interest in American right wing politics. Trickle Down economics was the central theme of the Sermon on the Mount, wasn’t it?
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I suspect you may be a seeker too, John. I will not be following any punitive deities anytime soon, so no worries on that score. We could all be a cargo cult for an alien race for all I know. 😉
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http://deadstate.org/megachurch-pastor-ted-cruz-has-been-anointed-by-god-to-be-president-of-the-united-states/
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And when Cruz DOESN’T WIN … what will be their response, I wonder.
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Da Dastardly Debil
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And he can’t wait for Armeggedon. He WILL push the button. We can’t let that happen. The idea that humans and all warm-blooded animals and amphibians will be exterminated by a demento, Rafael Cruz Jr., is too much to bear.
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This is hilarious… and scary.
I am missing notifications or I am half asleep.
I shall check…
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Zuma stole half your brain for his house renovation.
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100+ comments and not one theist is here?
Man I miss SOM
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They’ve been shy of late.
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Hey john,
just a heads up, a robot cannot enforce biblical law……………for the simple reason…………man cannot infuse the breath of life into a machine.
There ya go, no charge. This was far to easy.
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Thanks for that, Colourstorm. Have no idea what you are trying to say, but thanks for it, anyway.
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It takes the spirit of a man to understand the things of the spirit of man john. A robot can never conceive INTENT, therefore could never punish perfectly. This is why the adulterous woman was let go freely of her indiscretion……and the elders walked away condemned………..the weight of a broken law was revealed to their very conscience.
They who thought they interpreted the law correctly, were actually opposed to it. A robot could do no better.
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Nonsense. It’s all rather clear:
Our robot would enforce Deuteronomy 22:28-29, forcing the rape victim to marry her rapist.
It would murder all unfaithful partners (Leviticus 20:10)
It would murder all people accused of sorcery (Exodus 22:17)
It would murder all homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13)
It would murder a child who hit his/her father (Exodus 21:15)
It would murder all followers of other religions (Exodus 22:19/2 Chronicles 15:12-13/Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
It would murder anyone who didn’t listen to a priest (Deuteronomy 17:12)
These Laws are as black and white as they come. Crime = Punishment. The only room for “interpretation” is in what method our robot uses to kill the criminals. He has options, you see:
Decapitation with the sword (Ex. 21:20; Lev. 26:25)
Strangulation (Lev. 20:10)
Death by burning with fire (Lev. 20:14)
Death by stoning (Deut. 22:24)
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“It takes the spirit of a man to understand the things of the spirit of man”
And that is why everyone in the world agrees with one another in perfect harmony.
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Well buster, you are off to a bad start if you deny the spirit of man even exists……………. 😉
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Just a question for you. Does a righteous man need to be reminded not to steal his neighbors cow?
Ah, but what if he WANTED to steal the cow…………………..see john, your robot has loose wires here, and would allow many a criminal to walk free.
The law was a schoolmaster……….it magnifies sin. People do not live in kindergarten forever, although some never want to leave the classroom of immaturity.
And I remind you, Israel was not to be reckoned among the nations. This law was not given to the Chinese, the Scots, the Aussies, the Argentinians, etc.
Jews and Gentiles.
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Sorry Colourstorm, but you’re just not making any sense, again.
Here’s a case: a man has sex with another man. The rules on this are quite clear:
Now, the only room for error here is if two naked men tripped, fell toward each other, got erections as they fell, and, completely by accident, penetrated the other’s anus’s… repeatedly, over hours and hours.
It’s a pretty open/shut case, isn’t it? So, as I pointed out above, the only thing left to decide here by our robot is whether to cut their heads off with a sword, strangle them, set them on fire, or stone them to death.
Which would you think is best?
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C’mon john, I have told you, your robot is not qualified to make the decision.
Israel. Intent. Law. My answers were already given. Door number three, a door that your robot cannot open as he has no key.
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Robots can fly planes, drive cars, explore other planets, but one can’t determine if a man has his penis inside another man’s ass?
I see.
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Conscience 101 jz-
The robot knows the score of the game after its over. God knows the score before its played.
The robot knows how to punish after the crime is committed, but does not know that the crime occurred long before……..
It takes the spirit of man to understand intent………..impossible for a machine. Therefore your robot cannot judge perfectly.
And grace supercedes law.
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Nah, you’re still making any sense. It only takes image recognition to determine if a man has his penis inside another man’s ass. Pretty simple task.
Tell you what, would you feel more at ease if we swap out our robot for, say, three New Zealand Maoris who’ll do the killing?
Would that make you happier?
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No, you have just made your own dilemma even worse. Now you have people who do possess the spirit of man……..engaging in that which is imperfect.
Partners in crime so to speak.
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So enlighten me, then, Colourstorm… Who killed the homosexuals, naughty children, and cheaters in Leviticus’s day?
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Here’s a favor for you john. This is important.
Since you are citing the scriptures as your defense……please refer me to the place where the homosexuals in Leviticus day were killed………….then I will be happy to proceed.
There is this thing called context. But for now, off to work.
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I’ve already shown you the law…. Or are you suggesting it’s a false entry?
Do remember, we have the methods for the killing listed:
Decapitation with the sword (Ex. 21:20; Lev. 26:25)
Strangulation (Lev. 20:10)
Death by burning with fire (Lev. 20:14)
Death by stoning (Deut. 22:24)
And we have clear instructions that the people (ordinary people) should do the killing… as in Deut. 22:24:
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jz
Let’s frame your concern in the context I suggested.
Of the 613 cumbersome laws, in which the ten are the foundation, we read this:
—-And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.—
The law magnifies sin. Do you need to be told to drive like a turtle while kids are walking in a school zone, or do you need a sign that says: ‘this is not Daytona……..please slow down?’
If you loved God with ALL your heart………soul……….mind………and strength…………no law would be necessary……………
Proving that ALL are lawbreakers. Your robot would short circuit not understanding this or grace, and has no power to execute punishment in the context of grace as -xprae stated so well at the other place.
How about focusing on the holiness of God, in the which I suppose, if men occupied themselves with such, the desire to stone someone would be conveniently off radar. That’s the point.
Israel has fallen, and attempting to uphold a broken law while ignoring something far better is sad really.
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Proving that ALL are lawbreakers.
Um, no. I’ve never had sex with a man, so I haven’t broken that law. If you’ve had sex with a man, you would have broken that law, and our robot would strangle you, burn you to death, stone you to death, or cut your head off like an ISIS video.
I’ve never cheated on my wife, so I haven’t broken that law, either. But if you have cheated on your wife (are you married?) you would have broken that law and our robot would strangle you, burn you to death, stone you to death, or cut your head off like an ISIS video.
The Law is there, and it’s quite clear. Punishment, also, is clearly stated to be carried out by people then and there. Immediately… as I have demonstrated above.
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Ah but john, let he without sin cast the first stone………………
Thus disqualifying you and I and all men. You are missing the greater point.
If you stole penny candy, or WANTED to steal penny candy, you are a lawbreaker……………
Why not focus on the righteousnesss of Abraham john…………WITHOUT LAW, and how his life was one of obedience and grace, and how this was highlighted also in the New Testament.
Read the eleventh of Hebrews.
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OK, thanks for that, CS.
Be sure to get back to me if you have a valid criticism to this murderous biblical robot being placed in homes.
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Sure jz any time, but let me leave you with this:
Your robot, if in my home…………would have no power source 😉
You may want to muse upon what I just left you with. See ya later jz.
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Well accidents sometimes do happen. 😉
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And some folks are seriously accident prone.
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“let he without sin cast the first stone”
Pretty sure the robot would be sinless.
What can the robot do other than enforcing biblical law? Watch robot porn?
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@modus
‘What can the robot do…………….?’ you ask regarding enforcing biblical law.
Nothing. It is as unqualified as you.
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Contraire! As POWELLPOWERS pointed out, the robot is “without sin,” so it’s perfect for handing out the punishment as specified.
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Uh no jz, your ‘mindless robot’ has no concept of sin………….or better yet, perhaps your robot could write a dissertation on the holiness of God.
Good luck with that.
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Precisely, “Let he who is without sin…”
So, Colourstorm, would you feel safe having a robot programmed to enforce all biblical laws in your home? You have to think of your guests, those who visit, too, remember…
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Since when john is a robot a HE?
Game. Set. Match.
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Fine, let’s call it. It.
Would you feel safe having It (who is free of sin) in your home?
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c’mon john, your robot is as immune from sin as Lassie.
Your robot cannot ‘murder.’ And I repeat, is completely unqualified to render judgment regarding the spirit of man.
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Crap. It can easily determine if a man has his penis in another man. Case closed. Death. It can easily determine if a person is wearing mixed threads. Case closed. Death. It can easily determine if a partner has been unfaithful. Case closed. Death. It can easily determine if a child has cursed its parents. Case closed. Death.
So, Colourstorm, would feel safe having this robot in your home?
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Uh no jz, the robot makes no accommodations for a greater need.
Should a man not help his animal which fell in a pit on the sabbath………..
The law was not made for a righteous man, and your robot would short circuit trying to figure out motive, which is what I have said all along.
Maybe ‘the child that cursed his parents’ had a gun to his head……….surely your robot would ‘see’ he did so under duress……….or not.
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OK, you’re boring me.
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I can understand. Killing a ‘lawbreaker’ should be done after every stone has been uncovered, something that the punishing robot would have no interest.
So it is, ‘the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.’
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Deut. 22:24:
“you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death–the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.”
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So now your robot has arms like Sandy Koufax, and legs like Carl Lewis, and which knows the addresses of the miscreants?
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“So now your robot has arms like Sandy Koufax, and legs like Carl Lewis, and which knows the addresses of the miscreants?”
Think US drones already have that capability. Brother NSA is watching.
Re: arms and legs
You are kidding right? There are robots of all shapes and sizes. They don’t have to be human shaped – that’s called android.
But anyway the way you are avoiding giving a straightforward answer is interesting.
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“Maybe ‘the child that cursed his parents’ had a gun to his head……….surely your robot would ‘see’ he did so under duress……….or not.”
Your god doesn’t care about intent my dear. If not Uzzah wouldn’t have been zapped. Now perhaps Uzzah is in heaven because of his kind heart, but fact is he is dead. So in this case robot could still kill the child, and god bring the child up to heaven.
Isn’t that great? Wouldn’t you want the child to be in heaven instead of living on earth under duress?
I think I’ve seen that line of reasoning when talking about killing midanite babies.
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NO!!!
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This robot created by man to enforce biblical law would indeed destroy all, if that is the purpose of its program. If, however, it was programmed to have this so called “grace” than it would obviously not destroy, but would “gracefully” forgive those that broke the laws, that is if they repent and seek the robots forgiveness, otherwise bring on the sword, stones and lakes of fire. As far as intent goes I think we can see that the robot is obviously created with intent for the purpose of the creator. Seems to me “God” is thus also. A robot created in our image. These strict laws of the ancient past, and oddly some still today around the world, are a product of peoples creating systems for the most optimal chance of survival, i.e. these are the rules of this group, follow them and the group has the best chance of survival, defence and conquer, break them and punishment will ensue lest the group become weakened. It was not until people groups began to become more assimilated with other groups, beginning before Alexander then sped up by Alexander and multiplied by Rome, that grace began to enter the picture. Anyways, is God not just the robot we have created and as time passes on this robots functions begin to change by our reprogramming.
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is God not just the robot we have created and as time passes on this robots functions begin to change by our reprogramming.
Oh, I like that.
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Accidental anus penetrating repeatedly for hours is just one reason I love this blog. God bless you John.
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Accidents do happen 😉
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Perfectly safe. If you could truly write God’s law on the heart and mind of a robot it would be human.
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Because no human ever hurt another human.
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I am talking about God who created me, John. Why is this so difficult? Even you, an aethiest can conceive of God who created all of us. I think your confusion comes because you are a biblical literalist. Step away from your book and look within for answers.
I think you will find that while God does not think like me/us, we all have the innate capacity to understand God’s Law without your bible.
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And where does one find your god’s laws? I’d guess somewhere in your subconcious but that isn’t accessible to me.
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That has nothing to do with our robot executing its task. Law is Law. Punishment is punishment. And, as our robot is without sin, he can “cast the first stone.”
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Buster, not when following God’s law they haven’t.
John, God’s law has nothing to do with punishment.
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Buster, not when following God’s law they haven’t.
Really?
Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
John, God’s law has nothing to do with punishment.
See above 😉
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John, those quotes are from the bible. They are not God’s law. They are examples of man’s attempt to write God’s law down (an impossible task). God’s law is easily accessible to everybody. You have it available to you right now. Go seek it.
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Eric, you wrote, ” …those quotes are from the bible. They are not God’s law.”
Huh? Very strange comment. I would daresay most Christians would disagree since the bible is exactly where one finds God’s laws, God’s commandments, God’s suggestions on how to live (and what to do when God’s laws are broken).
If, as you say, this is “man’s attempt to write God’s law down,” (which, as you claim, is an impossible task), then how would anyone know what God’s law really is? You might think it’s one thing, I might think it’s something else, and John might believe otherwise. It seems if one is going to believe in “God,” there must be some guidelines to follow to ensure the person is on the right track.
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“All Scripture is God-breathed” (2 Timothy 3:16)
Ex. 14:1; 20:1 The Lord spoke to Moses: 20:1 God spoke all these words:
Deut. 4:2; 32:48 (NET)
4:2 Do not add a thing to what I command you nor subtract from it, so that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I am delivering to you. 32:48 Then the Lord said to Moses that same day,
Isa. 1:10, 24 (NET)
1:10 Listen to the Lord’s word, you leaders of Sodom! Pay attention to our God’s rebuke, people of Gomorrah! 24 Therefore, the sovereign Lord who commands armies, the powerful ruler of Israel, says this: “Ah, I will seek vengeance against my adversaries, I will take revenge against my enemies.
1 Cor. 14:37 (NET)
14:37 If anyone considers himself a prophet or spiritual person, he should acknowledge that what I write to you is the Lord’s command.
I could go on, there are 3,800 times the Bible declares, “God said,” or “Thus says the Lord,” but I really couldn’t be bothered. 😉
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…But Eric, let me just say that’s certainly a novel approach you have there to Christianity: The Middle Eastern god, Yhwh, exists, but the only source document for that god, the Bible, is fallacious and shouldn’t be trusted by anyone.
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“…the bible is exactly where one finds God’s laws…”
Now you know that is not correct. There are how many versions on the bible? By definition, God’s Law is immutable. Therefore God’s immutable Law can not be found in a changing document.
No God’s Law can not be found in the bible. Man’s attempt to document God’s Law can be found in the bible. But God’s Law can be found easily enough.
Your or my opinion as to what God’s Law is has no more bearing on what God’s Law actually is than does what the bible says.
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“It seems if one is going to believe in “God,” there must be some guidelines to follow to ensure the person is on the right track.”
Oh the guidance is there, just not in a book.
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From my personal experiences, I’m going to guess you believe god’s law is “written on the heart.” If this is the case, then how YOU interpret what he’s written could very well be different from my version. Further, since “God” is not known to communicate verbally with humans, how can anyone really know what his law is … if it’s not in the book that so many highly value as “God’s Word”?
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“If this is the case, then how YOU interpret what he’s written could very well be different from my version.”
Nan, I agree completely. How you or I discern that God’s Law may be very different. The Law is the same however only the discernment differs.
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“Further, since “God” is not known to communicate verbally with humans, how can anyone really know what his law is … if it’s not in the book that so many highly value as “God’s Word”?”
Sorry, Nan, I missed the second part of your comment. I can not tell you how to discern God’s Law for yourself. Me, I just look inward for answers and they are always there.
I think what was written about Jesus’ take on the Law is probably pretty close though. If you try to live by the principle of Love God and Love Others you are probably on target more or less, imo.
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John, you are putting words in my mouth. All I said was that the Law of the OT is man’s imperfect attempt to write down God’s Law. Nothing more nothing less.
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I’m sorry Eric, but that’s not terribly convincing. We have Jesus himself confirming the OT Law is perfect:
“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17 NAB)
Of course, we’re also told the Middle Eastern god, Yhwh, can actually physically write, in human words, words that can be read, so if there was a blunder anywhere shouldn’t we have expected this omni-potent being to have corrected the mistake like a teacher marking an exam? You’d especially think this considering the severity of the punishment (ie. killing children, killing all people of other faiths, killing adulterers, homosexuals, witches…)
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Hmmmm. John, you made a point I’d never considered. Ywhw wrote “words” that the people would understand. How convenient.
And, to Eric’s point that the law of the OT is MAN’S imperfect attempt … why would almighty God allow this? Surely if God wanted humans to live according to “his” laws, why didn’t he write them himself as he did the 10 Commandments and the message to Daniel? Surely “he” knew all about the weaknesses and failings of humans to “get it right.”
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Yhwh writes twice in words, which begs the question: if it considered the bible important, why not just pen the thing itself? It’s one of those awkward moments for the apologist.
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“William” just wrote this comment on Nate’s blog. Thought it was relevant.
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Point him to these two bible passages, which hit his point home perfectly, with a lovely twist 😉
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Oh, I just saw he already mentioned these two. Ooops 🙂
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“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17 NAB)”
Indeed this is true. By Jesus did not change any of God’s Law. He couldn’t even if he wanted to. You keep referring to what the bible reports is the Law. Imperfectly as I said.
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So, you’re saying killing people of other faiths is not the law, even though its commanded in the bible? And how do you know this, Eric? And why couldn’t Jesus change the law? It’s his law, isn’t it?
(And apologies Eric, for some reason your comments are going into moderation. For some odd reason, it’s reading you occasionally as a new commenter)
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And, to Eric’s point that the law of the OT is MAN’S imperfect attempt … why would almighty God allow this?”
God allows us to fail regularly. Nothing new there.
Surely if God wanted humans to live according to “his” laws, why didn’t he write them himself as he did the 10 Commandments and the message to Daniel?”
Why would he write his Law on papyrus or stone when he has a far more permanent, accurate, and reproducible media to use. I find it very likely that the Law has been there all along just waiting to be discovered.
“Surely “he” knew all about the weaknesses and failings of humans to “get it right.””
Exactly. Again the Law of the OT is not God’s Law. Never has been as is obvious if any one takes two minutes to think about it – for just the reasons you cite.
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“So, you’re saying killing people of other faiths is not the law, even though its commanded in the bible?”
Look inside yourself for that answer, John. What are you told? My point exactly.
“And how do you know this, Eric?”
All answers are there for me to discover. Patient introspection.
“And why couldn’t Jesus change the law? It’s his law, isn’t it?”
Why would he? He has no reason to change God’s Law.
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Why would he? He has no reason to change God’s Law.
OK, so killing people of other faiths is commanded.
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John,
I occurred to me that you seem to be as big a bible literalist as any evangelical out there.
Btw, please forgive the attempt to label. I typically try to refrain from such actions.
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No problem. But it either is, or it isn’t.
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“OK, so killing people of other faiths is commanded.”
No, John. It is not even willed or desired. You obviously did not look inward if this is what you concluded.
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No, John. It is not even willed or desired. You obviously did not look inward if this is what you concluded.
But we have numerous passages saying just this. I’m not concluding anything. I’m simply reading.
Death to Followers of Other Religions: Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers: They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God: Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.: 1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
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“But we have numerous passages saying just this. I’m not concluding anything. I’m simply reading.”
But you can’t learn God’s Law by reading. I can give you a book the says Tinkerbell is real, would you consider it accurate to believe that then?
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No, but I can show you three billion people who do simply because its written 😉
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“But you can’t learn God’s Law by reading. I can give you a book the says Tinkerbell is real, would you consider it accurate to believe that then?”
This is hilarious on so many levels.
Firstly – “you can’t learn god’s law by reading.” So why the bible? This is one of the biggest horseshit I’ve heard a believer say.
Now, the charitable interpretation is you most probably meant you can’t learn god’s law by reading the bible alone. Perhaps that is right, but pray tell how the holy spirit can guide you and tell you that it is not ok to kill unbelievers, even though god told David to do it, told Moses to do it, told Aaron to do it (and many other more kings in the book of Kings), and yet it’s not god’s will nor desire to do so.
Secondly – “I can give you a book the says Tinkerbell is real, would you consider it accurate to believe that then”
I can give you a book that says this god is real and created the world. Would you consider it accurate to believe that then?
Not sure if you are actually trying to sink your own god…..
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“Firstly – “you can’t learn god’s law by reading.” So why the bible?”
As I said, the Law in the bible is man’s attempt to capture God’s Law in writing. Obviously am impossible task. Go back and read what I wrote. This fact is obvious.
“Now, the charitable interpretation is you most probably meant you can’t learn god’s law by reading the bible alone.”
No, that is not true. One does not need the bible to know God’s Law. Many things in the bible directly contradict God’s Law.
”
Perhaps that is right, but pray tell how the holy spirit can guide you and tell you that it is not ok to kill unbelievers, even though god told David to do it, told Moses to do it, told Aaron to do it (and many other more kings in the book of Kings), and yet it’s not god’s will nor desire to do so.”
Since it is not God’s Law to do so, the inescapable conclusion is that the bible is wrong to say it is God’s Law.
“I can give you a book that says this god is real and created the world. Would you consider it accurate to believe that then?”
No. Why would anyone? My point exactly.
“Not sure if you are actually trying to sink your own god…..”
Not at all. So are you another biblical literalist? Sure are a lot of you on this site.
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Eric, I think you’re going to have to tell us which god, precisely, you’re talking about. Is it the Middle Eastern god, Yhwh, some other named deity (Veles, for example), or some loose pantheistic/deistic notion. Is it a personal god you’re talking about, or an indifferent energy. This might help anyone talking to you to know exactly where you’re coming from, because right now, it seems you’re just talking complete nonsense.
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Eric is talking about the one true god – the one that coincedentaly thinks exactly like him.
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I replied to the wrong thread, John, see above. Buster, you too.
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Yeah he doesn’t sound like he’s describing christian god YHWH at all. Not even sure who else share his thinking.
People learning god’s law without bible, and not using the holy spirit?
Weird. Maybe that’s why he is a half troll.
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“People learning god’s law without bible, and not using the holy spirit?”
PP, you don’t have to learn God’s Law. You just have to seek it. And who said anything about the Holy Spirit? Just making stuff up now, eh?
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I starting to like you now.
Please do me a solid and debate SOM please.
I just wanna eat popcorn and watch.
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NO! Who will be programing (interpreting the bible) for this robot? Absolutely not.
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No interpretation, just word for word reading… as Yhwh wanted it, right? 😉
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The question reference God’s Law not the bible. There is no need to “interpret” God’s Law. Indeed, you couldn’t even if you felt the need. That is how we ended up with the bible after all.
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Eric, I’m promoting you to Full Troll
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